Feminist pub no 12: The Bluestocking Returns, this time with goats!

[YonicScrewdriver]

Welcome!

JSW got me hooked on computer games. From there on, we moved on to the Konami ones with their 3D perspective. I can't remember the titles but there was a Wild West one that I played forever and a day. I think from there on, I moved onto PCs, starting with the 286. There must have been a gap there in my gaming life, because next I remember was Castle Wolfenstein (precursor to Doom), Doom of course, when I first tried multiplayer gaming over the computer science's department brand new LAN. Then Monkey Island and Tomb Raider...honest to God, to this day I still wonder how I managed to graduate. I spent all my Uni years gaming!

Jet Set Willy lived in a massive mansion and you could go from room to room....he was really rich but every room was booby trapped and I remember being so excited when we discovered he actually had a door to Hades in his house!!

Hi All, catching up on the posts as I have been away for work.

Interesting couple of days where I got to better know the male sales manager, 3 male sales reps, and a female sales rep. Didn't detect any sexist notions (although that is not to say that some may simply have passed me by without me even being aware of them).

Interesting point was that although they are clearly are big drinkers and had late nights, they all seemed to think they got to bed earlier than they did. A sign of poor self-awareness? And how will that self-awareness relate to their sexism? Will they think themselves less sexist than they actually are? (I think the answer will most likely be 'yes'.)

When my mom was pregnant with my brother (the firstborn), she says that whenever someone said to my dad, "I bet you hope it's a boy," he would always reply with something like, "I just hope it's a baby!"

Second time round, the focus on was on my mom, with people saying to her stuff like "bet you're longing for a girl, to balance things." Then when I arrived with my girly bits (!), my mom's aunt told her, "I wouldn't have anymore, quit now while you're ahead, you have one of each!"

My parents did have one more (always planned on three children), another girl, which was met with the response of people saying to my dad, "you'll have to push for another one now, to see if you can balance it up." WTF?!

I will never get this fixation with having a particular gender first, having gender balance, or the assumption a parent will have a gender preference.

---

Anyway, in other news, DS1 (14) came home from high school yesterday with a letter for me and DH. It immediately filled me with dread. Then I realized he can't have done anything too bad or the school will have called me.

I opened said letter and this is what it said...

Dear Mr and Mrs Furbyvilles

Firstly, I would like to assure you, that Jack is not in any serious trouble. This is just a friendly note to bring to your attention something J said in class today.

J was in health class fourth period and the discussion was on teenage pregnancy. Another student in the class made a comment about the subject, which J appears to have taken issue with, and he called the classmate "an idiot."

While the classmate's comment could be considered offensive, I would like to refer you to point X of section X, in the student code of conduct, about respecting fellow students. I do believe J's response to his classmate failed to adhere to this part of the code. Should there be repeat behavior, J may be disciplined in future.

If you would like to discuss this with me, please contact me on XXX-XXXX-XXXX.

^Yours,
Mr. Health Teacher^

I obviously had to get to the bottom of it (paraphrasing here)...

Me: What did he do to make you call him an idiot?!

Jack: Well today they were covering teenage pregnancy, because as we all know, the US has highest teen pregnancy rate in the world. Towards the end of the class, the teacher asked if we had any thoughts on the issue of teenage pregnancy, and what could possibly be done to further lower the rates.

The other student, T shouted out, "tell the dirty hos to close their legs!" The teacher gave him a stern look, but didn't say anything to him, so I said out loud, 'you can't say that, it's really offensive, and besides guys have to take responsibility too. It takes two to make a baby.' Then he said, 'it is always the girls fault, it's their job to not get pregnant' and then he said the dirty hos thing again, so I called him an idiot.

Me: The teacher didn't take him to task for making such an abhorrent comment (TWICE) in a health class?

Jack: No - he wasn't asked to stay behind or anything - but I was, because of the idiot thing. Am I in trouble?

Me: No you're not.

I did tell him he shouldn't have called the boy an idiot - however true it may be - but he's not in trouble, as he did the right damn thing!

Then I called the teacher, saying while I appreciate that Jack shouldn't have called other boy an idiot, I was outraged to hear that he hadn't taken the other boy to task for his comment.

Teacher's response?

"T is known for making comments for shock value, I don't think he really means the stuff he says."

Oh you don't think. Well maybe, just maybe, he does.

Anyway, it soon became clear I was getting to nowhere with the health teacher, so I've made an appointment to see the principal on Wednesday.

Good for you Tess.

That is hideous. I mean, even if this child does say things to shock and there is some management value in ignoring him to undermine his power (which I'm not necessarily agreeing with), why would you not challenge the assumptions themselves and ignore the language?

Give 'em hell, Tess.

I'm so sick of hearing about schools and their Neanderthal approach to sexism.

How come she can ignore the language in the case of the sexist attitudes, but she can't ignore the language in the case of someone who challenges the sexist attitudes?

Ho is hatespeak. Why is she ignoring that, but not ignoring idiot?

It's a male teacher Basil.

That does might explain it.

Wow Tess just at this.

Xmas is just around the corner, if you are so inclined, perhaps a couple of books on feminism and sexism for Mr Male Teacher might be just the ticket .

And good on J for challenging an incredibly stupid comment. Problem is that that child's parents are setting such a poor example for him.

That is terrible tess hope you get somewhere with the head. but your son sounds brilliant - good for him for saying what he did

Oh damn it, just to mention something I meant to include in my first post, but I forgot (that's what I get for it being so long)...

Mr Teacher said, the reason he had to speak to J about what he said, but not the other student is that J's comment was aimed at an individual. However the other student's comment wasn't aimed at anyone in particular ("a general flyaway comment"), but "if he had, of course, called anyone in the class that term, he would have been dealt with accordingly."

So sexism is fine, if you're not being directly sexist to someone's face, thanks for clarifying.

NB: The more I think about this, the more alarmed I am that this teacher is teaching Health & Wellness, I'm reading through the course topics over coming weeks and sexism is a topic in the new year!

Christ.

It's a bit like MN rules, calling a group a name is ok, calling an individual something mild is a PA.

Can J be trained in the ways of MN phrasing?

"That is an idiotic comment."

"That comment makes you seem like an idiot."

So "ho" is allowed? Blatant woman-hating language is ok because it's just done for shock value? I am so glad you are taking this further, Tess. And good for Jack for speaking up.

Tess I see you are in the States. So am I. In my state, there are laws requiring education programs in the public schools about healthy relationships, which includes information about abuse in relationships. These programs emphasize how important language is in reinforcing attitudes of respect in relationships. If there are such laws in your state, you might have some ammunition in pointing out that this teacher is undermining what these programs are supposed to accomplish. Many of these programs are taught in health classes; he may actually be teaching one.

Are there girls in the class?

Presumably some of them will be sexually active or about to become sexually active?

Are they ho's? (Not sure of the plural for that -hoes? )

Or do they only become ho's if their contraception fails or if they are coerced into sexual activity they weren't expecting so for which they didn't arrange contraception?

Because he's creating a hostile environment for them by using this hatespeak.

Would it be OK to use the N word generally, as long as you didn't apply it to an individual?

Honestly, I would go in all guns blazing to this, but that is because I am fucking sick and tired of these twats failing girls and allowing boys to humiliate girls in class FFS of all places - not in a playground, or on the way home, but actually in a sodding classroom where they don't have a choice to be, where there is supposed to be a bloody adult in charge ensuring certain minimum standards. It absolutely enrages me and I have become utterly implacable on the issue. To the extent that I fear that if something did happen that was unacceptable, DD / DS might not tell me because they're worried I'll embarrass them with my militant ways. Oh dear.

Yonic - I like the idea of training J to phrase things in a MN way, thanks for the suggestion. He's going to have health with T for the whole year, and I suspect this isn't going to be the only time T will come out with some inappropriate comment, and J just isn't the kind of young man who can let something like that lie. I'll speak to him about it.

And yes, T is a general troublemaker, but he masquerades it in a class clown type of way.

Thankfully, J only has health and art with him, as academically J is in Honors classes and T isn't.

Oh just seen you're in the US.

Don't know what the deal is there.

For some reason sexism in schools is more enraging than it is anywhere else, for me.

"Would it be OK to use the N word generally, as long as you didn't apply it to an individual?"

Yy to this Basil, bet mr teacher would've jumped on "dirty n" alright.

Scone - I will look into that, thank you. We haven't even been here a year, so I'm still learning about the different policies etc, so if you hadn't mentioned it I wouldn't have known to look.

Basil - no there aren't. There is a male health teacher and a female one, he teaches the boys, she teaches the girls.

Tess, this site has information on which states are considering the legislation and which states already have it. Your local domestic violence or sexual assault agencies may also have information about these programs because they are often asked to provide speakers.

www.ncsl.org/research/health/teen-dating-violence.aspx

Scone - thank you so much, our state does have the legislation, so will find the relevant bits and quote them to the principal.

Also, I've just had a close look at the the school's code of conduct and what DS1 did is classified as level one (i.e. teacher will deal with it in the first instance), and what do I find under level two incidents (ones that a teacher should refer to the administration)...

"Language, writing, drawings or gestures that are offensive, abusive, threatening or profane"

Therefore the teacher seems to be choosing when he applies the school's own code of conduct and when he doesn't, as in my opinion T's comments were clearly offensive.

I have nothing helpful to add but am . Good luck. Is the principal a man or a woman? Unfortunately that might have an impact.

Tess your son sounds brilliant

I am terrified about this exact kind of thing for ds and dd(to come). Like you, I hope to reach ds to understand this kind of thing is not ok. Clearly I will do the same for dd. But what frightens me is that I can't control all those other ds's and that my dd will then not know how to react. Or will know but won't have any affect. I know how to challenge stereotypes and gender bias but it hasn't helped me. And while I don't think I had to get out of the corporate world purely because of sexism I do think it had a huge impact. I could fight and fight and fight but as long as I refused to subscribe to the code that said women had to act a certain way, the results I achieved were insufficient to get me the promotions, responsibility and respect I deserved.

"I will continue to call T an idiot if he persists in being an idiot and I will start to call Mr Teacher a bigoted fool if he persists in being one."

I suppose that wouldn't do. But what a joy if one could!

and for Jack. Well done!

OMG good for Jack. And the other kid IS an idiot, a sexist pig idiot at that. And we wonder how some boys grow up into men who think they're entitled to call women whatever misogynist names they like without repercussions.