Feminist pub no 12: The Bluestocking Returns, this time with goats!

[YonicScrewdriver]

Welcome!

Go Petula!

I wish you nothing but success with your big and exciting plans!

I am so sick of being reminded time and again how much my life and DH's has changed since having kids, compared to most men I know (professionally and personally) who might carry financial responsibility for their family but who seem to carry little or no practical or emotional responsibility... and don't understand why I don't have endless time to talk to them or meet them for drinks or whatever.

I know I'm lucky because of my earning potential etc but I don't feel lucky compared to my male peers.

Vodka, please!

Sorry, I had to post that or I'd've said it to the kids!

Yeah I don't get that either Yonic. In my team at work there are blokes with tiny babies, blokes with toddlers, blokes with school age kids.

And none of them seem to change their behaviour - they still go out for drinks after work, travel abroad for work, choose to stay at the conference venue when we have workshops (an hour or less from their homes) when we have meetings etc.

And these aren't emotionally disengaged men - given the chance they will happily talk about their kids who they clearly love a lot. Yet the lifestyle doesn't follow...

Aww, I missed a whole day of surname convo - one of my favourite subjects We aren't married so changing surname hasn't been an issue (although I wouldn't). When pregnant with DC1 we agreed on boy-has-DP's-surname/girl-has-mine. Was a boy - but that left me uncertain re what to do for any second child... Different surnames seemed kind of weird, but I knew I would regret it if everyone else in the household had the same (man's) surname except for me. And when DC2 was a girl that sealed it - she's got mine, so all quite nice and symmetrical! The ILs have never really questioned it or me (I'm not sure they dare!) and plenty of people have done the face - but then a good few have said what a good idea they thought it as well. I think lots of people feel massively tied by convention and almost can't bring themselves to break out of it.

Exciting Petuna - have you been planning it for a while or was it spur of the moment?!

I've decided I'd really love to have a cup of tea with Malala Yousufzai. She's proof that educated women scare idiots. I think she's ace.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/2206309-Stereotype-free-gifts-for-children?msgid=50018257#50018257

Started a thread - the book was called Busy Builders by Rebecca Finn, it's a toddler book with moving parts but 5yo DD liked it too.

for you Petula, sounds exciting!

Oooh, what are The Exciting Plans petula?

That book looks ace, DS is quite into Bob the incompetent Builder.

If I was me, 6 years ago, I wouldn't have changed my name (does that make sense), but now I wouldn't go back to my pre-marriage name because I don't feel much of an attachment to it, whereas I do feel quite attached to my current name as it's DS's name and my family's name. But yes 'because I want to and it's important to me' is a good enough reason for anyone.

Petula, to answer your question from hours ago, to be fair to dh he does have to answer the feminist questions too. He gets friends and acquaintances giving him a semi hats time about why I haven't changed my name sometimes. And I am sure if we did call dc2 (we found out it's a girl!) my name, I know a lot of his friends would look at him funny!

As for men at work, never ceased to surprise me how many men didn't seem to change lifestyles at all when dc came along. It was one of the most depression elements of working for a large corporate. I am self employed now and share an office with other self employed types, many of them men, and I really am enjoying it because these men definitely are actively engaged in their children's lives and share the burden. They are always rushing off to do the school run or coming into the office with the necessary bread and milk. It's very refreshing.

Well done petula. I did it a few years ago. Terrifying. But absolutely the best thing for me. And for out family.

Just popped in for a quick rant

DH went to pick DC1 up from school today and took DC2. A school mum told him he "did really well" with DC2 - he walked two blocks with his own child. But also owns a penis, so this merits a well done. He was quite affronted by this, and said no one would ever say this to a woman.

The good news is that increasingly the kind of men who are doing this, are offended by comments like that. As your dh was. 30 years ago such a man would have felt justified receiving that praise. It's bloody annoying though.

Dh also gets pretty annoyed at this kind of comment. He also has been known to roll his eyes (when in a good mood) or tell other men they are idiots (when in a bad mood) if they say make comments suggesting they deserve a medal for having kids alone for a few hours.

DH gets hugely annoyed at comments like that, but as a SAHD he gets them more than average I suppose... "Oh are you babysitting today" etc.

My school is interviewing for a new principle. One of the candidates said that sometimes parents of young kids can be a little concerned about male teachers. His response is that he's an over privileged white man who sometimes has parents looks at him funny because he is a male around young kids, and that seems like a tiny burden compared to the amount of privilege he gets so he should just suck it up. Maybe it's interview speak but it sounds like he gets it.

Not a feminist rant, but to do with being foreign: "Ooooh! How do you pronounce your name? Is it like that famous place? No? Can you just say the both of them so I can hear the difference?" FUCK OFF.

Other than that it's a lovely sunny day here...

I have a question, if I may. Is it whataboutery to steer a conversation towards feminist issues when that's not what's being discussed? For example, there was a story on Twitter about how Lego is ending its partnership with Shell as a result of a campaign by Greenpeace. I posted that this was great news and I hope that campaigns to end gendered Lego sets and introduce more female minifigs would be equally successful. So was that whataboutery?

I don't think so Annie because that campaign was won. Whataboutery would've been trying to repurpose the campaign posters in the middle of the demo!

Aaaahhh! Aaaargh!

I've just had lunch with my parents and my dad, a propos of a male relative expecting his first child, has said that men always hope for the firstborn to be a boy that will carry the family name. To which my mother responded that after they had me (I'm the firstborn), he said that he was so happy with me that she wanted a second child, even if it might be another girl.

Words just fail me.

Well done BISS for exceeding expectations even though you were just a girl

butting in Thanks everyone who welcomed me before........I am so sorry I take a jillion years but between my three children and their love of minecraft, I am very lucky to grap a tablet when I can!!!

For some reason me being their mother holds absolutely no weight at all....

"Exceeding expectations"

We are a minecraft family too ... But nobody wants to touch this old computer.

Haha yes what I need is an old computer. I try to tell my kids that when I was wee, all we had as a Spectrum where we played JetSet Willy and AticAtac with cassette tapes. I get met with blank looks.

I loooooooved Jet Set Willy!!! I used to play it on my MSX. Good times.

that is so cool that you know it!!! Yes, good times....actually, GREAT times!!

We had Jet set willy too. I don't remember much about it, but I do remember spending a lot of time playing it.