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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

How to be a feminist father ...

165 replies

MarriedDadOneSonOneDaughter · 04/10/2014 16:30

My girl is at primary school. I think I probably have no idea of the sort of inbuilt "patriarchy" stuff I do that might adversely affect her but I do read this forum and go to a few lectures to try to keep my self awareness up. Out of the blue accusations of being patronising (usually from my wife) are the tell tale that I'm not what I should be to my daughter (or my wife, but she's very able at setting me straight whereas my daughter might defer to my authority).

I want her to be happy and ready to take on the world and all the idiots she will meet.

Are there any tips you might give, books (not too long please Wink, I'm not a great reader) etc?

Perhaps you have a husband/partner that does stuff and you wish he didn't as it has some negative effect on your daughter. I'm not talking about clearly abusive behaviour as I am 100% sure that's not me. The more subtle stuff that most men won't be aware of. You experiences would help me.

Thanks in advance for guidance etc and sorry if I've turned up offering nothing but a begging bowl. At least other men might read this too and benefit?

OP posts:
YonicScrewdriver · 04/10/2014 17:45

A Mighty Girl and Towards the Stars are two possible sites to follow on Facebook/twitter.

Do you automatically gender ungendered characters in books/IRL eg dinosaurs or motorcyclists as he? Use she. The rest of the world will be using he so it won't go too far the other way Grin

YonicScrewdriver · 04/10/2014 17:47

What do you and DW model by way of balance of chores, respect for domestic, caring and paid work etc?

YonicScrewdriver · 04/10/2014 17:49

Pink Stinks and Let Toys be Toys are also good.

If you are more specific about her age , others might make specific recommendations, I'm going to shut up now!

Yama · 04/10/2014 18:01

We talk a lot about gender and socialisation. We have to, try to counteract the crap dd hears at school from her peers. Dh is very good at talking to/with the dc.

50/50 with all household stuff, including the thinking. So, he makes sure homework is done, uniforms are clean and ironed, appointments are made/kept etc as well as doing the housework.

He has always put them to bed so that they are happy to be comforted by either of us.

One thing we have done since our eldest was very young is to have the house rule that all adverts must be muted. They really are ignored if muted.

I can't think of anything that dh does that has a negative impact on dd. Our ds is being brought up in her slipstream.

scallopsrgreat · 04/10/2014 18:28

Wifework by Susan Maushart. Definitely. And perhaps something like Cinderella ate my daughter? I haven't read it but I've heard it's quite good.

PotsAndCambert · 04/10/2014 18:41

Never saying 'the boys ..,, and the girls ..,,'
As my ds are setting older, I'm noticing the need to reinforce the fact that it's not 'the girls in the cricket team xxx' but just team mates etc...
Oh it goes wo saying but expecting girls to fight and be noisy etc(ie boys attributes) and your ds to also have girls attributes (ie being gentle).
Listen to yourself and what you say to them and reverse it. It's ok to expect a bit to be tidy and gentle and liking stories/making up stories and a girl to be adventurous and looking maths/science books or climbing at the top of the tree.

TheSameBoat · 04/10/2014 18:51

Cinderella ate my daughter is brilliant. Plus there's the See Jane project by Geena Davis, about the representation of girls on TV.

looking back my DF always used to tell me I took things too seriously when I engaged in proto feminist analysis which used to drive me potty. I'm sure sometimes I was over thinking but it's good to hear your DD out, it's her experience after all and therefore valid.

but you probably will do anyway because you sound like a great dad Thanks

Coffeeinapapercup · 04/10/2014 19:02

By not referring to your daughter as "my girl"

Sabrinnnnnnnna · 04/10/2014 19:08

The Equality Illusion is an excellent - and v easy read - which will open your eyes to what she (and every other female) faces throughout their lives.

Definitely echo the advice so far as well - model a great, equal, respectful relationship with your wife. If she grows up with dad showing mum respect she is more likely to look for that, and expect it, in her own relationships.

PenguinsIsSleepDeprived · 04/10/2014 19:23

Yes, the Equality Illusion is good (and available in lots of libraries).

What age primary school OP - there is a hell of a difference between 4 and 11? What do you think of the comments so far?

Coffeeinapapercup · 04/10/2014 19:27

Sorry that might be a bit harsh but for someone who claims to read mumsnet regularly to use the possessional my as opposed to the mumsnet convention and non possesional DD really jars.

But Im finding your language is really jarring with what you are saying. Particularly with your wife being able to set you straight but you're daughter would defer to your authority. There already feels like you have an assumption of being the ultimate authority in your house which already smacks of casual patriarchy.

Patronising is assuming that it is enough to keep your awareness up by attending a few lectures and reading a forum as opposed to looking at ways to apply what you read to your own daily life.

I wonder if you asked your dw why she out of the blue usually finds you patronising.

BertieBotts · 04/10/2014 19:38

Try not to use gendered words even in ways which seem harmless like "Dads do X, Mums do Y" instead make it either individual (Daddy likes X, mummy likes Y) or about the whole family "The XXX family are always polite!"

Be encouraging when she starts dating. Trust her to make a judgement. Don't make it about "No man good enough for my little girl" etc. Also, don't show disgust if/when she talks about menstruation. She'll probably naturally prefer to speak to her mum about in depth issues, but she should be able to ask you to pick up some tampax or whatever without you being embarrassed about it.

Yama · 04/10/2014 19:40

Yes, I see what you are saying Coffee. What I really wanted to say (when I typed my first response) was that my dh, as an intelligent human being, knows how to parent his children.

Our dd doesn't automatically defer to his authority. Good, we are raising human beings, not automatons.

Coffeeinapapercup · 04/10/2014 19:41

Oh and your user name. You have defined yourself by your role within your family (your relationship to your wife, the number of sons you have, (i really hope your son is older) then the number of daughters you have). The language is casually patriarchal.

I wonder whetherif your dd did something good you would be "proud of you" "proud of your daughter" or "proud to call her your daughter"

Coffeeinapapercup · 04/10/2014 19:43

Sorry yama I had missed your reply

Sabrinnnnnnnna · 04/10/2014 19:47

Like coffee, I really hope your son is older, ad that is why you did your username that way... Don't treat your daughter differently from your son.

Don't ever call her "princess".

Coffeeinapapercup · 04/10/2014 19:48

"knows how to parent his children"

his children/our children

Just too many examples

YonicScrewdriver · 04/10/2014 19:53

Coffee, I agree with some of the points about phrasing but lots of women on here have "mummytocharlieandlola" type names.

Coffeeinapapercup · 04/10/2014 19:57

Yeah none of the phrases on their own are that bigger deal but there are just so many of them in both the op and yamas thread

tethersend · 04/10/2014 20:02

My advice would be to go easy on the 'you look beautiful's, and make sure you balance them with compliments about her bravery, intelligence, achievements etc. Whilst it's a trap both parents fall into very easily (myself included!), I think it's particularly important for a daughter to be complimented by a man for things other than her appearance, so she avoids falling into the trap of thinking that all men only value looks.

Coffeeinapapercup · 04/10/2014 20:03

Actually "his children" is the really killer for me. Bleuch!

And defining yourself by your relationship to your child on a parenting forum is a little different than your position within the family. So mummytocharlieandlola vs marriedtomr.... not so many of them

YonicScrewdriver · 04/10/2014 20:08

Always excepting the various mrscumberbatch type names Wink

Though sometimes people posting for a specific problem name themselves after the problem like "foundmyfriendout"

Anyway, let's see how things develop!

Yama · 04/10/2014 20:14

Coffee - I can see my turn of phrase has angered you ('his children'). I'd like to understand why.

The ownership thing? Surely my next two sentences - "Our dd doesn't automatically defer to his authority. Good, we are raising human beings, not automatons." indicates that we don't see our children as possessions.

It's very hard to convey who I am through short posts.

Coffeeinapapercup · 04/10/2014 20:16

Absolutely excepting them! because they are telling you something about themselves and their likes- Not there position.

BuffyBotRebooted · 04/10/2014 20:41

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