How to be a feminist father ...

[MarriedDadOneSonOneDaughter]

My girl is at primary school. I think I probably have no idea of the sort of inbuilt "patriarchy" stuff I do that might adversely affect her but I do read this forum and go to a few lectures to try to keep my self awareness up. Out of the blue accusations of being patronising (usually from my wife) are the tell tale that I'm not what I should be to my daughter (or my wife, but she's very able at setting me straight whereas my daughter might defer to my authority).

I want her to be happy and ready to take on the world and all the idiots she will meet.

Are there any tips you might give, books (not too long please , I'm not a great reader) etc?

Perhaps you have a husband/partner that does stuff and you wish he didn't as it has some negative effect on your daughter. I'm not talking about clearly abusive behaviour as I am 100% sure that's not me. The more subtle stuff that most men won't be aware of. You experiences would help me.

Thanks in advance for guidance etc and sorry if I've turned up offering nothing but a begging bowl. At least other men might read this too and benefit?

Thanks again to all. I've got some reading now.

IsItMeOr

Great link. Just finished reading it. Thanks. On to the next but here were some stick out quotes for me .....

"He's losing some leisure and you're gaining it. The measure of your oppression is his resistance."

"I was just finishing this when my husband came in and asked what I was doing. Writing a paper on housework. Housework? he said. Housework? Oh my god how trivial can you get? A paper on housework."

www.uic.edu/orgs/cwluherstory/CWLUArchive/polhousework.html

Its already happening that as I read this thread again having delved into the recommendations even a little bit more that I realise what a dick I am. Sorry everyone.

Thanks for sharing the blog Buffy I've never thought those words, or understood the world like that but some how while I was reading it I realized I'd been thinking them and feeling them the whole time.

"I think what I'm learning here is that the job of engaging other men is mine".

That's a very valuable insight. Do include your son in this. He could be part of the next generation of feminist men. If he ever displays or shows interest in what is regarded as a (more) female thing (e.g. art, emotions, soppy films, looking after something/someone) encourage him or talk to him about it like you would with your daughter. And make sure he does as much tidying, cooking, serving drinks etc as your daughter.

I think with a lot of determination you may be able to beat this patriarchic mindset that rears its ugly head in most of us! Well, at least some of the time. Good luck and keep trying.

I went to see Laura Bates, Caroline Criado-Perez (hosted by Samira Ahmed) do excellent talks on feminism at the Conway Hall (London) last night. Laura has a book out on her "Everyday sexism" campaign (I now have a lot of reading to do!). Both speakers highly articulate and compelling.

conwayhall.org.uk/talks-lectures?startFrom=1412812800

Next time I'll take a friend.

Oh I was there too. Would have been nice to say Hello. I agree the speakers were eloquent and influential. I wished it could have gone on longer as the conversation about how to put the feminist point across with the maximum effect and minimal alienation was just getting going.

(BTW when I mentioned this discussion / debate through a new thread someone reported the post and it was deleted)

Gina, I think it was deleted cos it was a post just promoting a specific, paid ticket event? I didn't report it, btw, it seemed a bit unnecessary to delete from my perspective, but I suppose it was a breach of TG.

Yes thanks Yonic - this is what MNHQ said, but then I saw two other events listed in a similar way. I asked why there was no consistency and it seems there is no HQ monitoring, deletion only occurring if it is reported by someone on the board. I hope some people saw it before it was deleted!

MNHQ are pretty clear that it's not a moderated site and that they respond to reports.

I think if you post "I'm going to this, anyone else interested?" then they are happy that it's more a discussion point than a promotion. And obviously if people are involved in the organisation of an event (not sure if you were on this one, just a general point) then it's harder to disclaim an interest in promoting it!

I am sure it did come across as more promotional although this was not the intention. Will prefix anything that looks interesting with a "I'm going to this......" to dodge that fate in future. Thanks.

ie promotional with a financial interest rather than topic interest.

I earn 10x what the children's father does so all the children know mummy's career prevails and we always split tasks fairly at home. Even 30 years ago when our oldest was born their father found and hired and interviewed the nanny with me.
We bought my daughters some feminist books about 25 years ago - just bed time stories showing women as doctors, window cleaners etc. The main thing is just let girls be active - my daughters have always been strong and also feminist, outside the horses, rushing across fields, dirty, not put into stupid silly clothes they cannot move in.
No one in the family lets anything sexist pass them by without comment.

Gina111

I read the introduction to Laura's book on the bus afterwards. It was almost verbatim her presentation, which is great as I wished it was recorded at the time.

I've shared it with DP and am now thinking at what age I should present it to the children. I'm thinking primary school age might be too young.

PS - I'm a member of the Conway Hall Ethical Society. They have great stuff there, but this was the best attended event I've seen.

I think what I'm learning here is that the job of engaging other men is mine. I like the suggestions here that men should make it their responsibility not just in their family, but amongst their peer group and more broadly.

yes, tactically, that's pretty much how I see the exchange, Married - the sort of seemingly 'low hanging fruit' re womens rights aren't all that they seem, ime. The effort to engage there is def. worthwhile, though your presentation or language may not be everyone's cup of tea. It is the 'chipping away' that's quite important, imho.

Married

I agree primary school age is likely to be too young. Many of the topics are related to unwanted sexual advances and described in detail so more suitable for teenagers. I bought a second copy for my friend's teenagers and even we are struggling over when best to present it to our children.

The book is interesting but I thought Laura was more impressive in person as the written work is a bit catalogue-y.

As she is based in London she seemed up for visiting my daughter's school. On reflection, I think it would be better if she went into my son's school as I regularly hear stories of how girls raise equality issues and are shouted down by the boys in the class (60/40 split boy/girls) and girls sometimes end up in tears. My son has both male and female friends and finds himself being accused of "not supporting me" or "not speaking out" by both genders.

I thought it was an interesting statistic quoted at the discussion (although haven't checked the source) that men consider that 50% of a group are women once 17% of the group are women, so the boys must feel a bit outnumbered with 40% girls :-)

PS The rest of the Conway Hall programme looks really interesting too.

Gina

The next day I went to see the head of a secondary school to ask about feminism at the school. They acknowledged it isn't properly addressed across the whole curriculum and that staff could be better informed.

Wouldn't it be great if there was some sort of feminist audit of schools that would ensure the management, staff, teaching and curriculum were aligned, including training for staff and education for the students? Schools could wear an "equality" or "feminist" badge with pride.

Laura (I think) mentioned the reading list of a prestigious boys school being dominated by male authors. I bet this happens with all subjects (history, science,art etc).

Do you think it is appropriate for her to be spending time on privileged wealthy boys at the expense of all the other great work she does? I'd love her to come to the school but maybe thats is just yet more attention for boys who already get more than their fair share?

I remember DS's X school released separate reading list for boys and girls. The girls' list had a balanced mixture of male and female authors and protagonists. The boys' one was, with the exception of one, written by men about boys.

OP, to answer your question, I think if we don't engage boys in this early on, we'll never achieve equality.

In all likelihood, the boys at that school will be in positions of power in the future. So yeah, I think it's worth it.

This is one reason I believe it is particularly important to offer education to single sex boys schools although other interventions such as increasing the number of female teachers etc will also be helpful:

www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/2112699?uid=3738032&uid=2129&uid=2&uid=70&uid=4&sid=21104891987813

From reading and personal experience I think we have a lot of progress to make in Catholic boys' schools.

I agree it would be excellent to do a scoping exercise to see what is offered in various schools and work out what should be offered.

Sorry - will try and find link to full free study.

www.umich.edu/~psycours/561/lee_g.htm

I seem to have killed this thread with the last link....

Reading and exchanging ideas is good, but is anyone up for some action?