Minor male entitlements

[kentishgirl]

It's not just the big things, it's the little things that are in some way more irritating to me.

Just got out of the dentist. It's a small practise and I guess the receptionist is off sick as the reception desk still had shutters down, so they were a little bit late opening up. One woman was sitting in waiting room when I arrived. A man came in a little after me.

The dentist came out and opened up the desk.

Guess who quickly jumped up and got there to be dealt with first?

What do people do when they see their own male partner taking all the bacon or stretching out on public transport? Or do men only do it when alone? Or are men so socially incompetent always destined to be alone anyway?

Men aren't socially incompetent at all, Curwen. Which makes you wonder why they do it...

Well, thanks Citrus. Nice bit of misogyny there. Blame the busy female bar staff, rather than the pushy men....

Reading my post back, it may read like I implied that all men are socially incompetent. What I meant to say was 'are all those who indulge in such behaviour so socially incompetent.....'

I don't use public transport, so I don't see this. Are men who travel with partners equally as guilty?

Oh my goodness - that bacon thing has totally enraged me.

That happens ALL THE TIME when I'm back home with extended family. There are 8 people sat at the table, and the 3 blokes seem to think that they get 60% of the food between them (and at least 75% of the protein).

Now I may not have a massive appetite but who bloody says that men get to have twice as much bacon as me? It's not like they're out working in the fields all bloody day.

Callani, my mum or Mrs would tell me not to be such a greedy bastard and to put some back. What do they say when you challenge them, the ignorant bastards?

Ah well, Curwen, sadly my Mum is a big fan of "growing boys need their food" despite all the men being over the age of 30 so when I'm visiting my parents I have to put up and shut up!

Leaving mugs and biscuit wrappers on the tables for the long suffering clerk to governors to pick up.

The female governors tidy up their own.

That is pretty tragic tbf. Indulging rude/stupid/ignorant behaviour begets more of the same. If we are all round at my mum's for such a meal, it's the kids who get first go at everything, and once four hungry teens have been at the food, there aint much left

I have not really encountered these issues specifically relating to men. I think this behaviour is rude but could just as easily be done by women. I have certainly been interrupted by women at the post office counter and I'm sure my DH finds it hard to get a word in when my mum comes round! I used to go to the football every week with my DH, FIL and his uncle and nephew. I didn't even encounter this behaviour there and it was a very male environment - men would always let me get served at the bar if I was there first and include me in conversation. Don't get me wrong I can't stand sexist behaviour but I think these are examples of rudeness rather than sexism.

Sure those people are rude and no, most of them won't be thinking "Aha! There's a woman sitting next to me, I must spread my legs as wide as I can!". They will just do it, because they believe they are entitled to it. But if you pay attention, then you will see that in vast majority of cases it's the man hogging the armrest or the woman stepping aside when there's not enough room to pass.

To be fair I don't use public transport very often but I have noticed that in shopping centres women often use pushchairs as a sort of battering ram to barge me out of the way whereas men hold doors, let me go first into the lift etc when I am out with the pram. I'm sure we do stuff that's annoying too!!

I must live in a parallel universe, I can honestly say I have experienced all of the behaviour above from both sexes equally. In the bar / dentist one why not say 'I was first'. With the car thing if I'm with colleagues its mostly the most senior person of either sex that gets the front seat if I'm with friends it's who has the greatest need tallest / largest / health reason. I'm very petty with an armrest, I'll happily elbow the person on my one off even if I don't want it- the biggest battle I ever had was with a woman on a plane who had NO personal space boundaries.

I totally agree with you Lizard, I've encountered this behaviour from both sexes too!

Well then you're very lucky, I realise that sounds sarky, but I do mean it.

As someone said above the saddest thing is most of them don't even realise what they've done. it so deeply ingrained that they are in the right.

Interesting that some posters think it's a woman's job to police their male patners' and relatives' behaviour and reprimand them if they take too much bacon etc. Is that because those posters think that good manners are the responsibility of women? Or because they think men are infantilised and can't be responsible for their own bad manners? Either way, depressing.

And if, as some posters suggest, many men are good at being "chivalrous" towards women - opening doors for their prams to go through etc - then shouldn't it be the male members of the family who police the rude men and tell them not to take all the bacon etc? In, fact, if they are so "chivalrous," why aren't all the non-rude men spontaneously and indignantly telling off all the rude men rather than leaving responsibility for "chivalry" and good manners to female members of the family? While they are there, the non-violent men could take responsibility for telling the violent men not to be violent..........oh wait. Merry-go-round, anyone?

If someone did that at my table, I'd tell them that they were being a twat, Rosa. But they don't because I was not brought up to be an inconsiderate twat, and neither was anyone in my family. I don't expect only women to police this behaviour, but obviously they have a role to play. If a mother or father allows this behaviour as their kids grow up, who's fault is it that the kid grows into an inconsiderate arsehole? Just common sense and good parenting really.

I can't put myself directly in Callani's shoes because I don't know her or her family. I am not criticising her - she has her reasons for not saying anything. Transposed to my home or my mum's home though, and I would not stand for it. It isn't chivalry, it's good manners and due consideration for others.

On the tube men pretty much always spread their legs as wide as possible and hog the armrests. Never seen a woman behave like that in nearly 30 years..... It's usually women who hold doors open for people, I find. And then end up standing there forever because no one else takes the door and you can't very well let go so it slams into someone's face apart from that bloke in Harrods a couple of weeks ago who did let it slam back into my arm

You're right Rosa, it shouldn't be wives and mothers policing this. Surely men are grown up enough to notice when they are being greedy twats or lazy twats?

Having worked behind many bars in many countries, I can tel you that a bar person worth their salt takes note of who is where behind the jump and ignores the pushy men who wave money at you. They also make those men say please and thank you, or they fail to serve them entirely

I can't put myself directly in Callani's shoes because I don't know her or her family. I am not criticising her - she has her reasons for not saying anything.

Why does she need a reason not to point out to her male relatives that they are rude? They are adults, it's not her job to point out their rudeness, they should take responsibility for it themselves.

It's not poor parenting, it's entitlement. It's gowing up in a society that presents you with daily examples of others like you being the most important people; being in positions of power, getting the most of things such as food/space, being represented as the default people in the media/in sport etc etc.....and on and on and on - inevitably, you will believe you are more important, too, and entitled to all of those things as well, and others in society will sub-consciously treat you that way too. The point is, the men who are grabbing the bacon or barging their way to the front of the pub or hogging armrests or whatever don't think they are being rude. They don't realise or notice it or even recognise it as rudeness - it's just sub-conscious entitlement.

One thing I hate is the expectant look on men's faces when they hold the door open....it's like "thank me NOW". When women he the door open for me, their demeanour is so different.....they are smiling and Just being kind!!

he=hold!!!

Then what is the difference between the men who do it and the men who don't - because they are surrounded by the same influences. If it isn't upbringing, then what? Innate niceness? Superior awareness? Greater intelligence?

And to what do we attribute the behaviour of rude, pushy women? Because they exist too. Where does their entitlement spring from?

Oh, and why do people need a reason to point out rude behaviour? From your own statement - it's (just) subconcious entitlement, i.e. they are not conscious that they are doing it. You said so. So, how else do you make them aware?

I see a number of couples sharing lifts in the morning. The man drives the car to his work place then the women jumps out to drive the car to hers (or home I suppose). Why don't the women just drive at the start if they're going to be the last ones in the car. Makes no sense.

Surely men are grown up enough to notice when they are being greedy twats or lazy twats?

Some men don't appear to be (some).

Just look through the Relationships section of this very site and you'll see that there's a huge problem with grown men displaying this sort of behaviour to sons/etc and it becomes "normal". The amount of threads on here that I've seen about grossly unequal disposable time after work (even in couples that both work roughly the same hours and don't even have children yet!), for example, is depressingly high. And that continues...