Minor male entitlements

[kentishgirl]

It's not just the big things, it's the little things that are in some way more irritating to me.

Just got out of the dentist. It's a small practise and I guess the receptionist is off sick as the reception desk still had shutters down, so they were a little bit late opening up. One woman was sitting in waiting room when I arrived. A man came in a little after me.

The dentist came out and opened up the desk.

Guess who quickly jumped up and got there to be dealt with first?

I'll believe you
Can we have this thread again from scratch? Because I was really looking forward to reading it and had stuff to say.

Say your stuff Just. Just pick up where it left off.

A common family entitlement: It is the weekend. A woman with young children needs to do a job which needs some quiet/space/whatever. She checks with her partner that he is ok to be in sole charge for an hour. A man is, IME, far more likely to simply announce that he is doing X. I read a novel by Sarah Moss called Night Waking where she gives a very vivid picture of this imbalance within a family as the female protagonist starts playing her husband at his own game and simply legging it from the kids.

Steering women by the waist. I'm pretty sure this is dying out now but, oddly, I seem to notice more men under 40 doing it now than chaps my age.

Oh god yes, the entitlement in physically steering a woman around a space.

The way that all conversation on a topic stops when men drag in some almost irrelevant points and refuse to stop raising them.

That even in female dominated workplaces any male members of the team are automatically deferred to in meetings and often sometimes promoted beyond their skills.

Ok sure let's do this thing

So I already mentioned the stepping in front and walking thing (I delight in overtaking then staying two steps ahead. Irritating? Yeah it's what you were doing to me, man!)

Another one - and oh yes this is minor - cleaning coffee cups away.
We have a coffee stand in the meeting area at work. I'd say nine times out of ten the men I am meeting with (it's 9.5 times out of ten men I meet with because I work in a man's world) leave their cups on the table when we've finished rather than clearing them away.
They are usually there as my external guests so I clear their cups for them. They look a little shamefaced occasionally.

(I meant steering through doors and such, not as part of a dance, btw!)

The expectation that, at a physical level, they will look down on women. I have written about this lots of times, but I am tall. In work sometimes I would wear very high heels. It was quite revealing the subtle ways the behaviour of certain men changed when I physically looked down on them.

Yy penguins I will get thdt book

Oh, another one. A female colleague recently mentioned to me how uncomfortable she felt about being the only person in the room who everyone else kissed as a greeting.
Yes she is always the only woman in the room. The men think they are being welcoming and nice. They are usually a decade or two older than her. She finds it intimidating and physically too close.

Bland - it isn't really what the book is about. It was really good though. A lot about the frustrations of a women feeling trapped within her family and the professional frustrations, alongside a sort of mystery storyline. I felt like, for once, I was reading a book with an authentic female voice. Even female authors often struggle.

And YES about voice. My best male friend likes to lecture me on feminism. I don't bother to express my opinion because I can't be arsed to argue. I know what I think and that's enough.

Thanks Penguins.

It turns out I already own it but have not read it.

I do appreciate that kindle stops me buying books twice...

The kissing thing doesn't bother me - I'm a gushy person anyway, and have lived in several places where kissing women is just manners. I sometimes do it to people who don't like it, which is embarrassing.

I'm with you on the height, though! I'm only 5'8", but so are many men and I often wear heels. I've found it advantageous to stand up if I'm seated when some geezer's being overbearing.

Looming - getting six inches too close, then sort of bending forwards a bit. It doesn't work on me, but it pains me to watch other women taking tiny steps backwards (thus, literally & metaphorically, losing ground.)

When men use your feminism against you in some way. "Oh, you're a feminist, you must want to be the next Sheryl Sandberg, right?"

Why, do you want to be the next Richard Branson? Or are you allowed to have your Very Own Professional Identity, not just the same as a random person with the same genitals?

Well, I hate recommending books Bland because it is so personal, but I loved it. She has a good rant about baking your own bread which made me snort because it was about the time we were all talking in the pub about sourdough being needy and recommending recipes!

Oh, I'm a book junkie, don't feel bad if a random aside leads me to a purchase.

I don't have expensive clothes or shoes or furnishings, I have a book habit

"What can I do for you, lovely lady?"

Sounds harmless until you count the number of times you've heard a female trader say the same to a man. It's subtly putting you in your place.
I'm sure it is, because I routinely reply with a "gorgeous" or a "sweetheart". I'd say 20% take this with a while the rest are either or

Glad to see this thread getting back on track.

1. Thank you cards. My side doesn't expect them, h's side does. In-laws always ask me to get a pen and pad at Christmas/birthdays so that I can note down who has given what, for the thank you cards. It's taken a good few years of me handing that pad and pen to h (and a few years of no thank you cards sent) for that particular one to go away.

1. Yes to being expected to get out of the way. Yes also to hogging the armrests/needing enough space to give their balls some air. I find that when I'm sitting opposite a man on the train, it's not uncommon for him to stretch his legs out their full length. I'm short, so don't take up a lot of leg room, but this still annoys me

1. I was in university recently, and asked a classmate how many women were on her course. A male classmate called me a sexist for not asking one of the men, as they could have answered the question as well. My question was "well why shouldn't I have asked the woman?"

1. The men get served any second helpings in my IL's house, and if there is any left over, then the women are asked if they want any second helpings.

1. The common assumption that it is the woman who will be responsible for childcare/domestic stuff, even if both partners are working.

Here's a link to Sheryl Sandberg's TED Talk which touches upon this subject. It's one of my favourites.

I picked up a prescription the other week, it was busy and I was one of three women with buggies waiting, not a lot of space so hanging back to try and leave privacy, the other women leave as a bunch of men arrive see me waitingand theoretically stand behind me but then jump forward as soon as the chemist appears, twice. Am fed up by now so wait right by the counter and get a dirty look for not letting an elderly man go first.

Chemist again this morning, different one which is massive plenty of space to queue and allow privacy, no one else there bloke queues by standing right next to my elbow as I try and have a private conversation about my meds.

Fuck off with the I'm more important than you, I must show that I need to be seen urgently by infringing on your personal space and basic manners.

Some classics from my DH:
I just don't see cleaning as high on my list of priorities. (yes, we had words - but I think this is a common attitude, that women care more about domestic stuff vs women actually just recognising that it has to be done eventually)

Also 'i think we agree about X' no, we don't I just haven't discussed it with you before

Yes on thank you notes. We had a new baby recently. Not one sod would have expected DH to write notes for the lovely things we were sent. It's not that I resented thanking people, but it is very clearly expected by society that I will do so. I also bet that very few men bought the things we were sent.

So there is this entitlement that cards will be sent, presents bought, givers thanked, without any effort.

Feeds into wifework. I consciously never took on presents and cards for DH's family. But I notice that the frequent lack of them has resulted over the years in a tail off of birthday presents to me from his family. But not to him. He still gets them, because it's his family. I have been judged and found wanting.

I just save my energy for other things so I'll live with it.

I wrote this on another thread tonight and realised it fits here...

I have been carrying out a little experiment recently when walking with the buggy and the DD's. I realised that, as I walk along a pavement, I am always looking ahead, working out whether we are going to 'get in anyone's way'. Ushering us all to one side of the pavement.

But I realised that actually, I have as much right to the pavement as anyone coming towards me. Yes, we shouldn't block the way, but nor do we need to throw ourselves in a hedge.

What I have noticed is that quite a few men are deeply uncomfortable with this. The idea that we have to sort of navigate round one another. They probably weren't even aware that they had expected us out of the way by the time we reached one another. But they had. One man even swore at us.