Minor male entitlements

[kentishgirl]

It's not just the big things, it's the little things that are in some way more irritating to me.

Just got out of the dentist. It's a small practise and I guess the receptionist is off sick as the reception desk still had shutters down, so they were a little bit late opening up. One woman was sitting in waiting room when I arrived. A man came in a little after me.

The dentist came out and opened up the desk.

Guess who quickly jumped up and got there to be dealt with first?

I'm going to keep an eye on this buggy thing I do "walk like I own the pavement" and probably did when I was pushing baby vehicles - I don't know. Because I'm making little plans to cirumnavigate babies coming towards me, I've not paid attention to what's going on with other pedestrians.
I will need to start using a powered chair occasionally; I expect a whole bunch of fresh issues.

What about going around half naked? Especially when your shirtless bloke cat-calls young women in summer clothes? The nerve!

I don't notice the buggy walking thing so much here where the paths are nice and wide, but so obvious in areas with narrow cobbled pavements and roads - stick the baby in the road and get out of the way of the man!
Weirdly I went to school in such a place and it was a male teacher (with young dc) who pointed it out.

I've noticed the same thing as Noble about boys in classes taking over and dominating the classroom.

I've just bought that book Penguins. I hope it's good.

I really enjoyed reading the early posts on this thread and I am amazed by the patience shown when dealing with the derailing posters (that's how it is in classrooms, you can't just ignore them because they just shout louder, and accuse me of sexism because I dare to spend time with the girls who are quietly struggling). I hope we can have a proper discussion now.

Men interrupting. ( and not thinking it rude)

I met a guy tonight who said when he was 15 him and 3 male friends cycled all the way to Germany, stayed in youth hostels and then knocked on farmers' doors in Germany and lived in a barn for a few weeks. For a girl of that age, that sort of experience would be unimaginable..!

ABland I'd second Penguins recommendation of the Sarah Moss book. It's good.

I'm with Just too about shared spaces in the office, especially the kitchen. It is ALWAYS the women asking (mainly) the men to clear their gone off food out of the fridge. They also provide the washing-up liquid and cleaning stuff. Mind you it has its upside too. We have lovely hand cream and soaps in the ladies toilets!

Another thing my partner does is walk out of the room and get on with stuff, leaving me to look after the children without asking me if I need to do anything or just out of courtesy. He just doesn't get it. I now play him at his own game. I guess until he is inconvenienced by my actions he isn't going to get it.

My dp does the thing with just leaving the house and getting on with something without asking if I'm ok with doing the childcare. I seem to have to ask dd2 if she wants to come too whenever I go anywhere. I'm getting new glasses tomorrow and dd2 is coming with me to the opticians while dp goes to the gym

I'm the person most likely to be asked to clear out gone-off food in our staff room though The person who cleans up after us all is a woman, but she would actually feel very put out if other people started to do "her thing" of mothering us all even though we are all capable adults.

And just wanted to add, the last male privilege is that they don't even see that they ARE privileged

Which is why they get so huffy when we point out these things to them. Sometimes I think that it's so ingrained that they genuinely don't see it..,

Talking through TV programs and films yet expecting there to be silence when it is something they want to watch. Dp seems to wait for a really gripping part of my program before announcing that his nose is itchy or something equally trivial and annoying. That might just be him, but I suspect it's not. (He's done it just this minute which is why I'm thinking about it now)

Expecting that sport/exercise/interests will continue just as it always has once you have children and life will be organised around it. Most of my female colleagues and friends have to check with their partners or organise childcare if they want to go to a club/class whereas their partners don't check with them that it's ok to go to the gym, they just decide on the day and text "I'm going to the gym, I'll be back late". The default seems to be that mum is home with the dcs and dad has to be consulted if he is needed to provide childcare in order for her to have time out.

DH did most of the nights with our children when they were small.

He has never needed much sleep and I do. It worked for us. Most people were horrified and I have a friend (female) who STILL brings it up.

Owning the TV remote And, come to think of it, expecting somebody else (a woman) to know exactly where everything is, including things they've mislaid all by themselves.

Is that still the norm, Dragonlette - men assuming they can just do whatever, without having to think about the family? I'm hoping not :( If it is, we really haven't got very far at all: you're basically describing a "partner as staff" situation.

... ... this is making me think of all sorts of domestic trivia, which total a huge burden of wifework, like "Haven't we got any drawing pins / clean towels / breakfast?" and which women should be challenging, like "I don't know, did you buy/wash/make any?" I don't want to get all told off for this, but sometimes I do feel like stamping my little feet in frustration at my fellow woman!

School communication - always with me.
Why? Why can't the menz read the long newsletters/ attend the long meetings/ volunteer at the endless events?

I feel compelled to post this and I apologise for doing so.

I am a man and I lurk in threads like this for ideas about stuff I might be doing without thinking about it. Over the years I have changed some but not enough so I still lurk.

I am only posting this to say two things... a)men reading these threads don't just get defensive and b)thank you

Agree with the travelling thing. A young guy I know has just come back from spending a year's surfing around the USA. I asked him how he afforded it and he said he hitched everywhere, slept in cheap hostels and, when he couldn't find a hostel, he camped out on the beach or slept in the houses of other surfers he'd just befriended. I love the idea of travelling cheaply and simply like this but it just seems too dangerous for a female. I know we are told that men are more often the victims of violence but I suspect a large part of that is down to the fact that inculcated caution circumscribes our lives.

Buffy I think you've missed the point slightly

I think it's less the norm than it was Garlic. I'm thinking of couples where both work but the woman does all the school/nursery/cm runs which means that of course she is at home with the kids when they are home. Their husbands/partners are then free to stop at the gym or the pub on the way home. Or they are part of a sport club/team ans it "doesn't seem fair to ask him to give it up" but the woman wouldn't dream of joining a club or team that took that much time away from the family. It's perspective really, I think the men would be perfectly happy for the women to join clubs etc but there would need to be consultation about it in a way that men don't seem to need.

I know this is rehashing last night again slightly but I am just astounded by how quickly men can resort to personal remarks when a woman is engaging them in serious debate. And they don't even notice they're stepping over that boundary quite often. It's incredibly off-putting. 'Let me give you a critique of your unsatisfactory personality' - why is my personality relevant to the issue?!

Thanks, Luis.

(Luis, thanks)

Things will get better. My sons are feminists. Men vary. Not all are as bad as seen on the thread. In my own marriage there was no assumption I would do more childcare (I ultimately earned 10x more than he did in part because of the feminist start - that we agreed my career would come first as I would earn more - so in our case no him walking out expect me to mind the childrenAlso in the 1960s my father did lal the night feeds (except for my first month we were all bottle fed) as he had been used to broken nights as a doctor and my mother needed sleep. So there was a man doing just about 100% of the night feeds in the 1960s and he hoovered the house on Saturdays etc. If you have that wonderful non sexist family going back decades it really helps. Also his aunts all 3 of them worked in the 1920s. Indeed on the other side of the family my grandmother took herself off to india to work int he 1920s.

On exciting gap years or university holidays my daughters did some pretty exciting trips. I remember one did 6 weeks in Central America - 5 girls, 24 hour bus journeys and all that stuff - she now plays a sport of England and some of those girls are very strong so I think they can protect themselves. My mother also made me learn judo at school in the 70s so we could defend ourselves. Other daughter on her gap year was even on that island in the news where the couple have been killed. I think we need to try to breed girls who are fearless fit and strong and of course feminist.

Also challenge sexism when it's there. I never let a conversation go even with a taxi driver where he says something sexist or racist which might imply I accept the view. I don't start shouting in their faces but I might say something like not everyone agrees with that view etc.

It's the same as how female politicians are expected to be 'nice' all the time. 'Nobody likesa harridan' aand all that. Some horribly sexist things have been said about Nicola Sturgeon recently, 'nippy sweetie' and all that.

Nice post, Luis, thanks.

I know we are told that men are more often the victims of violence but I suspect a large part of that is down to the fact that inculcated caution circumscribes our lives.

Hah, I used to write guide books and had a massive row with my editor about this. I put that much of my safety advice would be second nature to women; all they really had to do was apply the safety rules they follow at home. Men would need to adopt a more cautious mindset [followed by said advice]. My view was that women are already nervous and, if I didn't recognise this fact, there was a risk they'd either feel patronised (and not read the advice) or assume my advice was on top of what they already do and decide the destination country was too dangerous! He told women don't feel endangered at home and take no more precautions than men.
He had three daughters - god knows how he still managed to think he knew more about what women think than them, me, or his wife!

Thanks for the reassurance, Dragonlette :) It still seems painfully slow in the adjustment!!

I swim regularly and male swimmers are so much more selfish.

They splash about a lot more (a lot), they don't "fit in" with an existing lane but just do their thing and everyone else has to get out of the way.

They are a lot less considerate on the whole.