Do you think society (and actually feminist quite a lot) are conspiring to gas light women?

[WhatWitchcraftIsThis]

We constantly tell women they shouldn't be afraid of men, but actually they're dangerous. I would not leave my children with a man other than my husband, I don't tell people that but it's true. I trust my husband but even then... I'm always aware what the statistics say. I know what has happened to me, what has happened to friends. Maybe instead of laughing at women for "seeing rapist and pedophiles around every corner" we should accept that men are dangerous and that if men were a another species of animal you'd tell women to stay the fuck away from it. It's dangerous.

The stolen nude pics of Jennifer Lawrence et al has made me think about this issue.

The fact that the pictures were stolen is not the fault of the women involved - very obviously. But I wish that they had never consented to having them taken, because things like this DO happen to women. And revenge porn HAPPENS. It's happened to thousands of women: sexually explicit images that they made and shared with men they loved and trusted, used to betray and humiliate them.
I wish that women were more able to be aware that it is just a bad idea to trust ANYONE with this kind of material, even if you really really want to pose for nude pictures, it is a bad idea to give ANYONE access to a copy.

I fully agree that it is very unpleasant to be distrustful and wary of all men, but in my opinion it is better than the alternative.

In myview, accepting that men are socialised to be violent and dangerous and then trying to do something to challenge and change that.

I agree gin. I also think that if we are going to change the way we raise our sons, it's important to recognise what socialisation does to men. We can challenge and change things in the way we raise our children, as well as in changing adult society. If we don't name and talk about it though, I don't see how we can change it.

ABI, no I don't do that.

I think you are implying that I was trying to turn a discussion about male violence against women and children into a discussion about male violence in general, right? I can see why you might think that. I am sorry for derailing the conversation.

In myview, accepting that men are socialised to be violent and dangerous and then trying to do something to challenge and change that.

This is obviously a basic tenet of feminism. I see this a lot. And I ask the following question, but I don't think I have ever seen an answer; if men are socialised this way, why don't they all turn out the same way? What makes the difference between those who are violent, and those who are not? Because if we can define this, we can start to do something about it.

Your trust means literally nothing in the real world.

You are wrong OP, your trust gives you peace of mind and allows your DC to form relationships with wonderful men who will love and nurture them.

Lack of trust is damaging. Lack of awareness however is not.

Curwen, I would say because it's a spectrum. A mixture of nature and nurture. But the existence of certain elements in male culture means that men have the opportunity to follow that path if they so desire.

Curwen good question. I think essentially at any one time there are dominant norms in a society, but they are not deterministic or static. Norms change over time, and people can be more influenced by competing norms. The problem is that generally, the norms that support the status quo that support the social groups in power tend to be the most powerful. So it's very difficult to completely erode the norms that perpetuate sexism and misogyny. But that doesn't mean that they have equal impact on every individual.

There is another element as well, which I think means we shouldn't take some of the socialisation arguments too far. Are men socialised to be aggressive and violent? Pretty much. But then why, if men dominate society, do we have prisons? Why do we have laws against violence?

Basically, at the same time there are norms that enable male violence, there is a competing social imperative to limit violence. So perhaps rather than it be a case of men responding to socialisation differently, they respond to the deterrent effect of the law differently. Some men might feel the same urge to violence but be more afraid of the consequences and have more self-control.

Sorry, that was a typo.

Basically I don't think men are set on one path by society and then are stuck there unless they choose to get off -- I think that's too deterministic. I think they are subject to multiple influences over time, and the way they turn out has a bit to do with the relative strength of those influences and a bit to do with their individual psychology and how they interpret those influences.

The reason the social norms supporting sexism are so strong for most people is because they are so prevalent, so they become self-perpetuating. But other influences can be powerful too, it just differs for each individual.

Much food for thought. Thank you for your responses. Got to go, but I will mull these over.

Just I guess what I'm saying is -- if someone asks why so many men are violent, we tend to say that men are socialised to be aggressive.

But people generally are also socialised to obey the law, including laws prohibiting violence.

So in trying to figure out why any one person is violent, I think we have to look at competing social pressures. I may not be very coherent right now though, I'm off to bed

You have to look at what people say and not what people do. Women are required to behave as if men mean them harm but are forbidden from naming the scale of male violence. Millions of violent porn sites out there but it's only a tiny minority of men who use them, millions of prostituted women and children but it's only a tiny minority of men who use them, at least one in four women raped but it's only a tiny minority of men that do this, at least one in three women victims of violence at the hands of a partner but it's only a tiny minority of men who do this, and so on and so on. Whenever a woman speaks the truth and speaks of what she can she, she is the one accused of hate and not the men who hate women.

If the risk from men is so small then why shouldn't we take naked selfies? Why shouldn't we walk home alone at night? Why should we watch what we wear and who we speak to and how we speak to them? Why do prefer women to look after our children or to work as our carers? Why do we go the toilets in pairs or in groups?

The whole thing is a mindfuck. We are socialised into being polite and accommodating to men, to think the best of them, but if you've been polite and accommodating to someone who then rapes you people will then say you were naive, lacking vigilance, or asking for it.

The whole thing is a mindfuck

In a nutshell.

"We are socialised into being polite and accommodating to men, to think the best of them, but if you've been polite and accommodating to someone who then rapes you people will then say you were naive, lacking vigilance, or asking for it."

So true!

OP If you are not prepared to leave your child/children with anyone other than your husband, what happens when they get a male primary teacher/TA? Or a male nurse if they are ever a hospital inpatient?

Should men be barred from those roles? Thereby making all childcare and child health female only?

Yes there are men who I would not trust or even have near my children, but there are also some women who fall into that catagory. we want men to step up and be better men not outcasts with nothing to lose.
Yes male violence is a massive problem and should never be overlooked. I do however think the vast majority of men are decent human beings.

"because things like this DO happen to women. "

Shouldn't that sentence be "because some men DO these things to women"?