Do you think society (and actually feminist quite a lot) are conspiring to gas light women?

[WhatWitchcraftIsThis]

We constantly tell women they shouldn't be afraid of men, but actually they're dangerous. I would not leave my children with a man other than my husband, I don't tell people that but it's true. I trust my husband but even then... I'm always aware what the statistics say. I know what has happened to me, what has happened to friends. Maybe instead of laughing at women for "seeing rapist and pedophiles around every corner" we should accept that men are dangerous and that if men were a another species of animal you'd tell women to stay the fuck away from it. It's dangerous.

Perhaps we should avoid all women too as clearly they can't be trusted.

unless they are the one doing the sexually assaulting that makes no sense. It is not the job of women to police men's behavior (and risk their own personal safety too)

You don't trust your male relatives and think you have good reason? Ok, I am going to assume you do in that perhaps you have seen or experienced things that makes you distrust each and every one of them. But in that case, I would expect you to do more - go to police, warn others etc. If you don't trust them because they are men then I am going to stick with my view that it's incredibly sad and also, sorry, a little bit silly n

Sorry Working I'm going to bow out of discussing with you persinally as I think you're behaving like a dick.

Thank you for getting it justtherightbullets i realise I'm letting my own issues leave me less than coherent!

Factual statements are fine but remember that you can pick which facts to present to reinforce stereotypes (a classic political tool), so you have to be careful.

WhatWitchcraft I hear what you are saying... how the hell to know which men are NotLikeThat? "Fear all men" is one solution I suppose, but I hope it isn't the right one.

You don't want to engage with me because you can't answer any of my points. You are happy to play the victim but refuse to accept that women stepping up might be useful or that generalising against an entire gender, including your "d"h is not going to solve the problem.

You should make sure you and your daughters don't step out the house, ever. And that your sons are banished as soon as they hit puberty.

Ok, sorry, that final comment was unnecessarily sarcastic. But I stand by the rest.

WhatWitchcraft I hear what you are saying... how the hell to know which men are NotLikeThat? "Fear all men" is one solution I suppose, but I hope it isn't the right one.

I don't think there is a "right" response indi I guess, but I think if it is a woman's response it shouldn't be ridiculed because it's not really ridiculous. You know I mean?

How exactly would you like to see women "step up", WorkingBling?

Working, the OP's point is that, whilst she trusts her DH, most DWs married to abusers at one point trusted their DHs (Rolf Harris's wife, to pick a recent example). Just as most people trust their spouses but lots of spouses have affairs. It's not silly paranoia to note that trust may be betrayed.

Femin, my understanding is that lifetime risk of rape for women is c 1 in 4 - where did you get the "most women" stat?

Weird isn't it that we're expected to not get drunk, not wear short skirts, wear 'rape preventing' nail lacquer, not talk to strange men and any of a number of different things to 'prevent' us being raped by strangers. Or men we have met while out. When we know from crime stats that we're more likely to be raped, assaulted, harmed and killed by men we know and trust, children are more likely to be sexually abused by men their parents trust and yet, when someone comes out and says that we should be more afraid of ALL men, that woman is called silly, hysterical and a bit sad and ridiculed. That they are 'playing the victim'

So, women discussing an epidemic of male violence (another woman and her child were killed by her SO today) is silly. You don't know from looking at a man, or even knowing a man for a while whether he will do something awful, so, just perhaps a healthy fear of men isn't as silly, hysterical and sad as it first sounds.

Not all dogs are going to maul your child, but you'd be a careless parent if you didn't instill a healthy regard for the damage dogs can do into a child wouldn't you?

Yea, I don't think it's ridiculous feeling to have. Especially if your personal experiences have contributed to it. I can see how teaching women to avoid men would be seen as a ridiculous way to live, but I don't think you mean that's literally what should happen. But if you feel that way inside, you're definitely not going mad.

I suppose for me the question is how much we let our feelings dictate our lives.

Is it rational to feel so afraid of men? Perhaps. But the question is, what do we do with that fear? How do we go about our lives with that fear?

I think choosing to avoid men or distrust all men with your children is not a reasonable action (as distinct from feelings). I don't think it's a healthy approach for your children.

Statistically, if you drive every day, you are likely to get in an accident at some point (ranging from mild to deadly). But you still get in the car every day, you even bring your kids in the car. You turn off that fear.

I think giving into the fear of men is counterproductive for your own life.

I agree with you WhatWitch and this thread demonstrates it. The statistics pointed out on the thread are that 87% of the female victims and 96% of the male victims were killed by male suspects and there are responses saying all people are dangerous (plainly not on the statistics), NAMALT and you have a sad life. This is gaslighting and minimising the danger of male violence against women.

What I want to know is why so many on this thread seem to accept that fear of men, no matter how rational (in the same way as a fear of dogs or cars is rational), is just something to accept and get over. Why aren't we more angry that men are as unpredictable as animals or pieces of metal flying down the road at 70mph?

Why aren't women more angry? Why aren't men more ashamed? Why do we continue to accept this? Why the actual fuck should we have to live in fear of men no matter how well we manage that fear?

dreaming what do we do about it? Well for one thing, I stand outstide the men's toilets when my DH is in there. I tell my kids if they are approached by someone who seems odd to them, to ask a woman for help. I talk to them about walking in the street and things to avoid doing. I would love to turn off fear but I don't see how ignoring the very real danger is productive in life.

Sorry my DS re the loos. My DH can take care of himself.

NAMALT is sucH a stupid response. We all know that NAMALT. Nobody is saying AMALT. We ARE saying that EMALT - enough men ARE like that for a lot of women and children's lives to be affected by it. TMMALT.

Why do you have to say "women and children", can't you say "people"? Are adult males to be excluded from the possibility of victimhood?

gin how dare you discuss male violence against women and children without including men who need feminists to protect them from violence from other men!

I think Gin has it. It's something I struggle with because the vast majority of men I know I would absolutely 100% trust no questions asked but turn on the TV, read the newspaper, go online, talk to your friends about their teenage daughters and you would be convinced that there is a full out war on women.

Like Gin says EMALT for the fear of it to factor into our daily lives in a myriad of ways.

Knowing the statistics - that men are more likely to be the victims of male violence then it does feel that sexual violence is more reported in the press. Is that true I wonder or just that I notice it more and if it is disproportionately reported then why?

Annie of course I'm angry. But my anger manifests itself as a big fuck you to all the assholes out there, I'm going to go about my life and not be scared off. Like Flora I do take precautions, I don't ignore the fear or think there's nothing to worry about (in the same way, to extend my car analogy, we wear seat belts and drive under the limit etc.)

But personally I would feel that if I avoided men generally or kept my DC away from them, that would be letting the violent assholes win. I think norms are important in society and we need good people going around and being good to each other to counteract all the terrible people doing terrible things.

I do wish more women were angrier. I wish we weren't socialised against saying fuck off more often.