Do you think society (and actually feminist quite a lot) are conspiring to gas light women?

[WhatWitchcraftIsThis]

We constantly tell women they shouldn't be afraid of men, but actually they're dangerous. I would not leave my children with a man other than my husband, I don't tell people that but it's true. I trust my husband but even then... I'm always aware what the statistics say. I know what has happened to me, what has happened to friends. Maybe instead of laughing at women for "seeing rapist and pedophiles around every corner" we should accept that men are dangerous and that if men were a another species of animal you'd tell women to stay the fuck away from it. It's dangerous.

Indigui, but that's the interesting thing isn't it? Logically men should be more afraid of male violence but they're not are they? No one encourages them to stay in, take precautions, always make sure they take a licenced taxi, to take care not to walk along with too much swagger lest they attract a fight. My dad NEVER worried about my brother being out but always about me even though DBro was far more troublesome.

It is only women who are told to not put themselves in danger, even though men are more likely to come to harm.

Why?

Ha ha, that's funny Flora but I think men do need feminism. Even if a lot of men don't know it.

Knowing the statistics - that men are more likely to be the victims of male violence then it does feel that sexual violence is more reported in the press. Is that true I wonder or just that I notice it more and if it is disproportionately reported then why?

I suspect it's because sexual violence is seen as sex by complete idiots and is therefore in some way salacious, hence it's being reported more often. We know that only a tiny minority of sexual offences are ever reported, and of these only a small number are ever prosecuted, can you imagine how it would be if all women reported and all those reports were reported in the press, if every incidence of male violence to other men was also reported? The internet would be 'full'.

I think a lot of men are very afraid of violence, there just isn't an ism for it yet.

Pacifism I suppose :)

I suspect a lot of men are afraid of violence.

We're talking about male VAWG. What do you think about that?

Interesting thread.

Just noticed a couple of things:

"Yes, most violent or sexual crimes are committed by men. But I think you will also find that it's a pretty small percentage of the total male population doing these things"

I am not sure about this at all. Given the sheer volume of sexual crimes in the stats, and then thinking about myself and my friends and stuff that has happened and who it has been done by, I don't think it's a small percentage at all is it? If you are including the full range of sexual offences including groping and flashing, and including what Dawkins might describe as "mild" rape, and so on, then it's everywhere isn't it. I would argue that actually a pretty high percentage of the total male population must have done something at some point. Even if it's "minor" like sticking their hand on someone's crotch or fucking a friend when they're too pissed to have much to say on the matter.

Pls take my use of "minor" and "mild" in the spirit they are intended ie they are not actually minor at all but unfortunately much of society does not see it that way.

The other interesting point is this: "When my breasts were groped by a man on oxford street I was told by the female friend I was with to stop making a scene ...."

Yes that sort of thing has happened to me too as well, more than once, and including for a pretty serious incident. This is because women and girls are very strongly socialised to "laugh it off" and if it's too serious for that, to "not make a fuss" etc and so on. To blame women and girls for finding it hard to break out of their socialisation is a bit off. It is the people perpetrating the assaults who are in the wrong here. Ask yourself who benefits from women and children being socialised not to react in an angry way to this, not to report it to anyone etc. It's not women, is it.

OP I think you do have a good point re. gaslighting. I'd call it more a society-wide conspiracy to minimise male sexual violence against women/children wherever possible.

Oh the stats. Has anyone got a link to the most recent stats on violent crime - which show that men are more likely than women to be victims? Because I think but would need to check that sexual assault is excluded... Might have a google.

Here's one recent set of stats for England and Wales.
www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/crime-stats/crime-statistics/focus-on-violent-crime/stb-focus-on--violent-crime-and-sexual-offences-2011-12.html

Quote from that "The CSEW showed that young men were most likely to be the victims of violence. The profile of victims of violent and sexual violence varied according to the type of offence. In 2011/12, as in previous years, more than two-thirds of homicide victims (68%) were male. In contrast, women were more likely to be a victim of domestic abuse. Some 7% of women and 5% of men were estimated to have experienced domestic abuse in the last year, equivalent to an estimated 1.2 million female and 800,000 male victims. Similarly, the survey found that young women were much more likely to be victims of sexual assault in the last year."

What an interesting link! I haven't got time to look through it now but will do so, it's a really rich source of info.

I think given how rarely sexual abuse is reported and prosecuted, a small number of men can commit a large number of offences -- I wouldn't presume that a lot of female victims means the same number of male perpetrators.

Actually here is an interesting-looking article:

www.davidlisak.com/wp-content/uploads/pdf/RepeatRapeinUndetectedRapists.pdf

For example, Abel and colleagues (1987) reported that when given assurances of confidentiality, 126 identified rapists admitted to 907 paraphilic acts against 882 victims. Weinrott and Saylor (1991) conducted a similar study of sex offenders in a state treatment program. The 37 rapists in the study had been charged with 66 offenses against a mean of 1.8 victims. Yet under conditions of confidential selfreport, these same 37 men admitted to 433 rapes against a mean of 11.7 victims.

Pooling data from four samples in which 1,882 men were assessed for acts of interpersonal violence, we report on 120 men whose self-reported acts met legal definitions of rape or attempted rape, but who were never prosecuted by criminal justice authorities. A majority of these undetected rapists were repeat rapists, and a majority also committed other acts of interpersonal violence. The repeat rapists averaged 5.8 rapes each. The 120 rapists were responsible for 1,225 separate acts of interpersonal violence, including rape, battery, and child physical and sexual abuse.

Yes we know that rapists who end up in prison are usually serial offenders.

I suspect lots who don't end up in prison are serial offenders also.

Remember that very few rapes are reported, and of those that are reported, the victims have "triaged" their own assault so generally the more prosecutable offences are reported. So the ones that are reported and go on to be successfully prosecuted are the less common serial / violent / stranger type.

People who are raped under less prosecutable circs know they won't get anywhere so don't tell anyone (simplistic there are other factors obviously but still).

Many many people do not see assaults which are rape as rape. When people say "rapist" they think violent stranger etc. Yes they are less common. But there are a lot of rapes going on which people don't see as "real" rape - these people I suspect are rather more numerous and possibly (this is a guess) less likely to be serial offenders.

And when you bring in all sexual offences - then I'd say there's an awful lot of men at it. I don't know a single woman who hasn't had something. That is way too much for it to all be carried out by a tiny minority of men.

Hmm that was a bit garbled, too much in my brain to get down!

Bottom line is that I think that a high proportion of males have probably committed some kind of sexual offence at least once in their lives, if you include all sexual offences.

Many people do not see for eg grabbing someone's tits in a club as a particularly big deal.

And more serious sex crimes are really very prevalent and hugely under-reported.

Krav Maga teaches you to react explosively and with anger/aggression on the basis that this surprised many attackers and puts them off guard. Obviously you then try to escape ASAP (this all assumes that you didn't escape without engaging, if at all possible). This includes Shouting and waving to draw as much attention as possible to the attacker/threat. Clearly most relevant to a non-DV situation. I won't recite all the teachings here but there is some great stuff if you look into it. It really helped me become more confident after being attacked by a stranger, even though I fought him off I lived in fear for a long time. They did some great exercises where they role played low-level intimidation/groping etc and it was enlightening how many women found it virtually impossible to tell the other person to back off. Even where role played by a female. Incredibly strong socialisation towards being polite/not causing a fuss. I recommend it - it becomes a self-defence mindset.

We have seen from the rape kit backlog in the USA that, when they tested some of them, they found that there were serial rapists. www.newrepublic.com/article/116945/rape-kits-backlog-joe-biden-announces-35-million-reopen-cases

So yes, I think it is very likely that a large proportion of rape is perpetrated by repeat offenders.

Seven sorry, that second paragraph I quoted, with the 120 rapists responsible for 1225 violent acts those were men identified by survey, among college students, not men who had ever been reported or prosecuted (or even saw themselves as rapists necessarily).

It makes sense though -- men who are violent and abuse women will just keep doing so until they are locked up, so there will be lots of victims. I think it's interesting in that article that sexual abusers are often responsible for lots of non-sexual violent acts as well.

I am not at all saying perpetrators are a tiny minority but just because there are lots of female victims doesn't mean an equivalent number of men are perpetrators.

Why do you have to say "women and children", can't you say "people"? Are adult males to be excluded from the possibility of victimhood?

LITERALLY "what about teh menz?!"

Fucking brilliant!

'men are dangerous'.

how insulting to all decent men - the majority.

Also just to note that a lot of the stats we're talking about are based on surveys, not on police reports, so while they are still probably under-reporting they are likely closer to real numbers.

Many men think sex with a sleeping partner is fine, and will readily admit to it.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-19323783

I don't even know where to start. Men are not wild animals, or a different species. They are people. Everyman is someone's son.

When does my DS cross the line from innocent child to potential monster? Should I be building a cage?

The VAST VAST majority of men are loving, caring humans who want to live their lives in peace. I do not excuse the behaviour of the minority of men, but surely they should be removed from society (legal action etc.) rather than us having to look sideways at half the population.

My DF was a SAHD, my DH is primary carer for our son as my career supports the house. I would trust these men with my life. I would trust the male friends in my life with the care of my DS. If you cannot I suggest you look at who you have in your life.

I feel for your sons WitchWay they will be able to tell their mother is watching them for signs they are unworthy of her trust. I hope it's not a self-fulfilling prophecy.