Feminist Pub X: Regulars and new faces welcome, consciousness raising is a possibility.

[CaptChaos]

The old pub now has less than 10 posts to go, so I thought I'd start a new one. The old one can be found here

This is a place for feminist pom pom waving and talking about stuff which might not need a thread for itself.

Fill your boots.

Can I have a small rant, unrelated to feminism?

Would you give homework to an 8yo which says "look it up on the internet" to find "something interesting" about some famous person? No further guidance. Or am I behind the times?

I fucking hate homework. And it's only the first full week back.

I hate homework too lordc, and I'm the one setting it If it wasn't school policy then I wouldn't set any at all for some classes, but I have to so I do. I wouldn't set that as a homework, especially to kids that age. Then again I teach maths and I'm struggling to think of any time I could set something like that even to secondary kids.

Yes Outself, that would definitely be something I am interested in.

lordc dp is a teacher but in secondary school - he says he gives that sort of thing to his form because he asks a group to present something on a topic that interests them in one formtime session per week, and then they have a discussion

but they are in year 8 so it's different

he says he wouldn't set that as homework (he is a history teacher) as too vague

upto - hmm, and does that homework lead to 19 year olds who say 'but I looked it up on the internet!' when you correct them, I wonder?

buffy - bet you that is feminist! Women get more flack for looking younger, I think. Would s/he do that to a male colleague?

Btw, I do love this place. I've just got back from a friend's wedding, which was delightful, and I am shattered (I am now officially too old to stay in youth hostels, especially youth hostels located over noisy clubs). It is so nice to curl up and catch up properly.

Yes buffy - I think that's a feminist rant.

I have grown-up students who can't cope with the internet and the deluge of information and choosing what's relevant and what's not. Why should anyone expect an 8yo to do that? It just ends up being me doing the choosing. In that case I want to set topics I find more interesting, thank you very much.

On the up side, DS1 is learning algebra. There is nothing more fun than algebra. Apart from Bach's partita in C minor. Obviously.

I've finished watching Amadeus. Studio Ghibli films next.

And to put away plastic containers. Why can't children just bloody stack the things to dry instead of constructing fortresses and tanks?

I have grown up me who can't cope with the internet!

It's the idea that you go on the net, pick something, and that's 'information' that bugs me.

Studio Ghibli is awesome. What are you going for first?

(Algebra is about the only maths I can do well, btw. I like it too.)

Outs, that would be great.

I'll have to try and read the bloody thing now, won't I?

The problem with this algebra homework is they give them homework on Monday and say hand it in on Friday but they don't teach all the stuff - so he'll be attempting to do his homework on Monday and get in a terrible huff because he can't do them because it's not been taught yet. I live and breath algebra and would actually quite like to teach them algebra myself, but FFS. How is it right to torment a child like that?

I hate school.

LRD I bought (that's what one does if one comes across a still-surviving HMV ) Porco Rosso and Valley of the Wind. May watch Valley of the Wind first.

I don't know, having the opposite issue mostly, but I wonder if dropping heavy 'at my age' comments would help? A friend of mine used to get mistaken for an undergrad when she started teaching and made a lot of 'pushing 30' comments, which helped her show the extra decade, a so I guess maybe that?

Difficult, though, when it's only implicit that she think you're young and wet behind the ears. And infuriating.

Buffy I would say: "I know exactly what I am doing on this issue, I am not your junior and in fact you have misunderstood my point and are explaining in detail the wrong thing." As you said. Perhaps not the I'm-not-your-junior part. Maybe I'm socially inept too. I have many (mostly male) students who would talk to me like I know nothing and won't take my advice. Why exactly do they think I'm paid to tell them stuff?

Hang on - I did not link Porco Rosso. What's happened there?

upto - ooh, I've seen neither of those, though a lovely friend bought me Valley of the Wind a while back. Would love to know what you think of them.

That sounds daft about the homework. I really dislike the 'give it a go before we teach this' stuff. I'm not offering to find it now, but there was a paper about outcomes for that sort of task that I read a while back, that said it is basically bad across the board, and especially bad at the top and bottom ends of the ability range, in terms of making people feel nervous.

I'd probably try to laugh it off, say "Oh I'm sorry I've probably said that all totally wrong. I'm quite well informed on the subject of X actually. I meant to ask you about Y." (or just leave off the last sentence if you didn't actually ask about anything.)

If you frame it as "Oops silly me, I've explained badly!" rather than "How rude and/or stupid are you, you totally missed or ignored my point!" it tends to go down much better, IME. Same with "Does that make sense?" rather than "Do you understand?" First is slightly self deprecating but nothing awful and also means "Have I pitched this right in terms of your background knowledge and/or experience?", second is slightly patronising, and nobody ever wants to say no to "Do you understand?" in case they look stupid.

Not showing as a link for me although I've seen someone say that on another thread tonight. Check your virus protection, but it could be to do with an ad. I've seen people complain about it before on here.

Here:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/site_stuff/2181502-Link-provided-by-SkimWords

Buffy, this is a bit PA, but one thing you do is smile pleasantly while you wait for them to finish, and then say, "exactly, which is why the thing we still need to determine is -" and then summarise the actual question in succinct and slightly threateningly technical language, and where you know you are putting them out of your depth, smile cosily and say "because, as you know, -"

this is not a gender thing, this is just a US thing - we work with LA a lot and we struggle to get our questions understood because they just don't grasp the sophistication of the way we are working. There are two gaps in comprehension that cause them to struggle here: one they don't think / work at that level of sophistication in their equivalent teams; and two, they are expecting us to be several levels behind and think we live in mud huts. it's hilarious. but annoying. Internally, we do not name it. we call it "cultural differences" and "different communication styles" rather than "we have to explain the terms of everything we are trying to do before we even start"

Thank you Bertie.

LRD I agree that this try-first-teach-later business is a bit dodgy especially if they don't know that they are supposed to bloody suffer. A bloody sheet full of questions and spaces for answer does not look like it's for exploring. It looks like you are expected to be able to answer the questions.

If it is possible to hate homework more!

grr buffy at colleague

it is tricky when you have to maintain a working relationship with someone but you need to nip the behaviour in the bud (also in the interest of ongoing relationship)

vezzie i use that approach. i do similar with a lot of "as you know of course" etc. i have to do a lot of persuading other people to do work for me for a pittance as part of my job, so have to find creative ways of letting them know if they've got the wrong end of the stick without them being put off helping me out

Sisters

Some of you might want to provide inputs on this thread re where to put abortion discussions on MN - MNHQ want "site stuff" type input on it.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/2178345-I-wish-it-was-easier-to-talk-about-terminations-apologies-if-upsetting?pg=10&order=

Thanks winifred, will do.

That sounds like a dreadful way to "teach" algebra LordC!! I teach Maths and I have to set homework but I have NEVER set a page full of questions when I haven't taught the topic. Not to anybody. If you only set homework once a week then surely you would set them questions based on what they learnt the week before, not the week after you've given them the homework.

sometimes it's OK to set an 'explore this and see what different answers you can come up with' type activity, but that's generally for team building or problem solving type scenarios, where there may be a range of answers, and the process is more important than the answer. For something that has a right/wrong answer it isn't so great, as students can come up with several wrong answers, feel frustrated/foolish, then switch off before they hear the right answer.

Buffy, I'd suggest not apologizing, but maybe just say, "My comment seems to have been unclear/misunderstood. I was saying ..." I also used to be thought of as younger than I was. In fact, when I did my teacher training I had a 6th former try to chat me up So, I did a lot of comments about being as old as ... Then I moved to the US where the entire system was new to me, and found that being new/inexperienced seemed to also make me younger, so had to start out with, "After 2 decades of teaching..." type comments. I have no problem with my age, quite proud of it in fact, so never try to make out that I'm younger than I actually am.