Feminist Pub IX. Newbies and regulars welcome - pop your cognitive dissonance down outside and have a gin.

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

Right, thought I'd better start a new pub. I warn you, my knowledge of Roman numerals conks out shortly after this one, so either buffy will have to start the next thread, or we'll have to go Arabic.

Everyone is welcome in - if you want to chat, or just jump in with a question/link/gin, please do. Especially if it's too small for a thread or you don't feel up to thread-starting.

The old thread has, at my count, about 9 posts to go, and it was here: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/2126791-Feminist-Pub-VIII-not-as-prolific-as-the-Swaggerers-but-there-are-cushions-and-consciousness?

We were just chatting about feministy light reading, and will doubtless meander onto other topics shortly.

No thanks, Buffy. Too much communal responsibility. I am lone wolf.

My grandmother got divorced fairly early and never lived with a man again. Some people thought it was a shame but she seemed utterly contented about it. Had several relationships as far as I'm aware, but just wanted her home to be her home. Lots of respect for that.

That's a real shame about the cloud of disapproval re: tattoos. I know just what you mean. Definitely the antidote is having lots of people REALLY approve, so we'll do that :) I would like a ship (a bit like this shop's logo, but in colour not black) at some point, probably on my shoulder.

Oooh, cool ship!

scallops - I'm sure you'll be great. Best of luck (and come wibble here before the interview if you need to).

I love the idea of the commune (with separate huts and oh, goodness yes, wifi).

ROFL at bum cherubs!

Yes good luck, scallops :)

Elephants, my gran was in a long term relationship after she was widowed and they lived in nearby villages, never remarried or cohabited. They were very happy.

That bird is stunning Annie, and I'm chuffed you're having it done despite your H's aversion. His reaction, to my untrained eyes, is an attempt to curb your enthusiasm and smacks of control. I say, you want tattoos, get tattoos. Get all the tattoos. It's your body, you'll only ever use it once. If he doesn't like it he knows what he can do.

Sorry about that. Some, probably most, of my exGFs were in bad relationships. I'm not saying yours is bad, how can I know? Just that walking on eggshells is not right. I've been on the receiving end of that and I know it's exhausting.

Good luck with the job application scallops.

And what Annie said about the ship Elephants.

Right. I've spent about ten minutes prevaricating over whether to press 'post message' or just delete, and I've decided I'm brave enough to do the former.

Thanks for the ship support, both of you!

I think that getting a tattoo is something I'd like to do when I'm older. Having something really beautiful as part of me would be wonderful - in a way I don't feel I've "earned" it yet. Ridiculous as that might sound.

Love "It's your body, you'll only ever use it once." That really is so true, might as well make the most of it. If it were me I'd be tempted to say "I'm going to get this tattoo done today Jim and I'm REALLY HAPPY ABOUT IT so please don't ruin it for me by being obtrusively saddened! Thanks!" as I swooped out the door.

I am back from the land that wifi and 3G forgot, and just trying to catch up.

Hurrah for gardens, knitting, tattoos, job applications and feminist therapists!

Boo to people telling you what you can and can't do with your body

Re depression, feminism and therapy, my mum has a theory that a huge amount of depression stems from feeling trapped in some way, and women are most likely to be in that situation

DoctorTwo - thanks for you input, you can come out of the corner now! But I really don't think it is about control - DH is not remotely controlling in any other way, and I'm not the sort to put up with being controlled. For the most part I inform him of How Things Will Be as regards my comings and goings and life in general, and he is absolutely fine with that, as a good Nigel should be. But did I mention how he really hates tattoos? If there were something about his physical appearance that I absolutely hated but he inflicted on himself on purpose, it would probably take me a day or two to adjust. I am generally very much of the YOLO philosophy (before it was cool and an acronym).

But I will ask him to try to curb his lack of enthusiasm a little more this time, because it is hurtful.

And since I gave him due notice of the nose piercing this morning, I will get it done some time this week.

Been out all day and catching up...

I haven't got any piercings at all ... And no tattoos ... Though I don't suppose it will ruin my life if anyone else chooses to have piercings or tattoos. Those pictures look good.

In my younger days I "made an effort" and got clip-on earrings, because all my friends were into earrings, but really, my heart wasn't in it and till now I have no jewellery. I'm really cheap to maintain - no jewellery, no make-up, no perfume, no handbags. I wonder where all my money goes... Oh yeah, eating ...

Petula I bought a ball of brown yarn (DC's choice ) and a pair of needles! I shall knit earthworms!

Hello ladies,

I've been on a fab holiday, and delighted to see that DSD doesn't seem to give a flying fuck about body image pressures and she just eats what she wants and drinks what she wants and generally enjoys herself. I cannot claim any influence on her, so kudos to her parents.

I've got a medium sized tattoo on my back that I love. I had it done at a great time in my life, on a fabulous holiday with amazing friends, and I figured that at least I would always be able to look at it and remember that great time. I love it, my parents, who used to be tattoo haters, also love it, and generally everyone I've ever shown it to does too. The one or two who told me they hate it, well, it's not on their skin so it's all good

Wow, you lot talk a lot!! I was only away from internet access for one night and it took me ages to catch up with everything you've all posted.

Gardens- I've been trying to grow vegetables this year, I have had a few peas but I think I need to plant more of them if I want them to get to the kitchen last longer than one day. I also have loads of courgettes, some pepper plants that are being eaten by slugs, and a couple of butternut squash plants that I can't seem to get the squashes to grow.

Tatoos/piercings - I'm way too squeamish to get a tattoo, but I really do like that bird, it's fab. I like the ship as well. I would get a little dragon if I was going to get one, I wanted it to crawl out of my belly button but my belly isn't in any condition to show anybody after having 2 giant babies.

Upto - why are you knitting earthworms?

I have been thinking about the tattoo thing.

I could never personally have a tattoo. I am too changeable. I would hate it after a few months.

But on the partner response, assuming that your partner is a good person Annie (which I assume he is, or you wouldn't be with him), I wonder if it is more about our response as women to other people's responses to our bodies IYSWIM. I mean, it is perfectly ok to not like tattoos, or to think your partner looks nicest when her hair is short, or not be keen on red lipstick, or whatever. I like my partner best when he's shaved and not stubbly, for example And whilst it's nice to be supportive of your partner, there's something dishonest about totally lying about something like getting another tattoo.

So is another way of looking at the issue that it's more about the fact that, as women, we often give far too much weight to the opinions of others and how they feel about our bodies. We have a tendency to equate aesthetic preferences to how sexually attractive our partner finds us, and to extrapolate out to the relationship itself (not saying that you are doing that Annie, obviously). But also to allow the opinion of others to affect how we feel about ourselves disproportionately.

Good luck with the job application Scallops (scallops are great, BTW, I agree. Since someone commented lower down).

Penguins - there may indeed be something to your theory, though I would think that maybe it's not about being sexually attractive so much as having our value as human beings wrapped up in our appearance.

Now generally I'm pretty much immune(ish) to that as far as wider society goes.

And I know for fairly sure my DH finds me attractive no matter what, since I'm currently 3 stone overweight and he still can't keep his hands off me.

I just don't like to upset him. But at some point I have to accept that one of us has to be upset here, and there has to be a point when it's his turn rather than mine. I try to find a fair compromise, but it's time the scales swung in my favour again for getting what we want.

No-one having a laugh at how awful my blue palm tree was, BTW?