Feminist Pub VII - Chat, questions, random thoughts too small for a thread ...

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

Just setting this up while we finish off the last few posts on the old thread. Come in and pull up a bar stool!

Throw some rocks in your washing machine Lord? it'll kill a kew minutes and your washing machine

No insights here either. I'm a bit baffled by these TERF threads though. Could someone give me a brief summary of what they're all about before I make the decision to dive in? Can't even fathom the acronym.

trans exclusive radical feminist.

I started a thread because people were saying TERf in response to articles about women and their issues (pregnancy/menstruation etc) some people were saying that it was exclusionary to say things like "women get pregnant"... because trans men can get pregnant too

hit send too early.

And because some transwomen see this as excluding them from feminism as "not all women can get pregnant"

I don't want to rehash though so won't comment on it further

Thanks for the summary. Hopefully reading in full will allow my face a greater range of expressions; it's currently stuck on Is this a common idea that I've just totally failed to notice?

What a bizarre concept! Lots of people born women can't get pregnant or menstruate either - I doubt they feel their gender is being brought into question or take personal offence. As if trans people don't have enough to deal with without making up extra stuff to freak out over. It's taking PO to a whole new level!!!

I've been enmeshed with a couple of the TERF threads. The TERF idea is basically a case of men (dressed as women) acting like the soldiers of the patriarchy that they are.

I've hidden the TERF thread and the rapists as artists one.

The TERF one because I seem to be a bigot, and I don't understand why. I have a long history of people hurting me with their penises, I don't want to have to worry that a random penis is going to be in a vagina only space.

The Entertaining rapists one because I am obviously too stupid to be able to see that just because a child abuser is famous, his trial is entertainment news, rather than news news.

I homeschooled, not because of feminist worries, but because DS was being bullied and assaulted everyday because of his disabilities and wasn't learning anything. In less than a year he leapt ahead 2 academic years. It does try your patience though, and your resources and people who don't home ed talk to you like you're a bit simple and don't get that the only place children learn is inside a school building.

I am feeling angry today. Inexplicably so.

for you Capt. I have angry days too.

You're not a bigot.

If we re-brand our feelings as being not 'anti-man' but 'anti-penis' do we stop being bigots, or are we worse bigots? I'm not clear.

Don't even entertain the whole bigot bullshit Denzel. It's total doublespeak. You simply can't win.

Some TERF-accusers actually say that a lesbian refusing to have PIV sex with a transwoman is bigoted. The only logical translation of that is that transwomen should be allowed to rape lesbians. Of course that only follows on if you believe that being called a bigot by a rapist is a bad thing. I don't. If they want to call me a bigot for not siding with a rapist, they can go ahead.

I'm not anti-man or anti-penis, I'm just anti-penises-where-I'm-not-expecting-them.

I feel the same as @giagia does about #nounexpectedpenises, but that makes her and therefore I a bigot in some trans*activist and allies eyes. I am totally not.

WhentheRed it is hard work, but we had a lot of fun as well. It also helped me to see that everything can be a learning experience for a child. I am not patient enough to do it long term though. Eventually he had to go back to school (it's illegal to homeschool in Germany where we were living for a while) where the bullying started again, so we all decided that he would be better off in a special school. He's doing his last GCSE as I type and then off to college in September. I am totally PFB proud of how he has overcome so many obstacles, he is my inspiration to go back to uni. Feel free to make vomming noises, it sickens me at times too lol!

No, you are not a bigot Capt. You are not. You are under threat and you are protecting yourself and any fucker who takes away your right to protect yourself should be ashamed of themselves.

I know Cailin, and thank you.

You are all right, of course, I was being facetious.

"Some TERF-accusers actually say that a lesbian refusing to have PIV sex with a transwoman is bigoted. The only logical translation of that is that transwomen should be allowed to rape lesbians."

I don't know about that, though. Saying that it is bigoted to withhold consent is not the same as saying that withheld consent can be overriden. We are still free to be bigots, surely?

The idea of threat is one I've been trying to get across to my male friend. I think he's starting to get it. When it comes down to it, men have physical power over women and they absolutely must recognise and acknowledge that.

Labelling someone's right to withhold consent as "bigotry" makes you a rape apologist in my view. What you are saying is that consent is not a matter of a person's own individual wants and desires but can be criticised and belittled (and therefore disregarded) by others.

Yes, Buffy, but the social power is rooted in the physical power, isn't it?

What I mean is, at a basic level men are stronger than women which from day one allowed them to dominate in all aspects of life, due to the threat they posed. This then allowed a social system based around men and their "natural" authority over women to grow, capitalising on the physical strength to dominate them in all other ways.

Thread seems to have moved on a bit, so forgive me harking back. Is it just a language problem at heart then? Like how we describe the human race as bipedal without any legless people getting het up about it?