This is fucking disgraceful (Daily Mail)

[rootypig]

Daily Mail is framing a teenage girl as being at the root of the Santa Barbara shootings, because she 'teased' the perpetrator (according to his 'manifesto'). They have posted pictures of her (with her face pixelated, some concession), in varying states of undress, of course (bikinis, short shorts, things that best fit the narrative).

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2639555/Meet-model-named-Santa-Barbara-killer-reason-saw-women-mean-cruel-heartless-creatures.html

I loathe them already, but this has shocked me. The poor girl. How can they get away with this?

Bloody hell the small print says they don't think she has been in contact with him since 8th grade so 13/14 year olds. She was a year below him so 12/13 so not in contact for best part of 8 or 9 years and they think it is OK to plaster pictures of her now all over their papers.

Talk about trying to twist things and blame the young woman she is now for deliberate actions now rather than the child she was.

spittin - if she was abusing a disabled child then why didn't you go to the police? That's illegal. And you said she lived on your road - so you do know where she lives don't you?

spittinfevvers do you think that's an appropriate comment about someone who is being blamed for the murder of 6 people? You don't even know what she did. Since this man felt he was entitled to sex from women, who killed people because women would not "give" him sex, that you should accept his account? Even if she was a bitch to him, he killed people because he hates women for fucks sake, I don't care what she said to him and I think you post is disgraceful.

I'm loving your sense of equivalence spittinfevvers. Seriously, though, I can see that that would be extremely distressing for you as a parent. And I really mean that - there is no passive aggressive intent on my part. But I would say it's skewing your judgment here a bit.

A man has gone out and killed and maimed because he hates women. We could have guessed that anyway, but in this instance, helpfully, he told us.

We are now enjoying the spectacle of the mainstream communication networks desperately trying to ignore the reasons he did this. A tricky feat, one might feel.

And now we have the Daily Mail picking a woman/girl and publicly vilifying her on a global stage. She is, effectively, selected as a target.

Not only is it a hate crime against a particular woman/girl, it is also a mis-direction of the real reasons underlying a killing spree. The hateful misogyny that drove this crime, that implicates all men, and society is deflected ... onto a woman.

And ... last but by no means least, it sends out a message to all women: Be fearful; We could pick you out too.

I dread to think what this poor woman's life is like at the moment. I should imagine she is looking at her future with real fear.

That, in my opinion, is a hate crime.

I've hated the Daily Mail with a passion I can barely keep inside my skin since they ran the story blaming the poor for the murders of those children. This doesn't surprise me at all. What amazes me is people's capacity to overlook how serious and real this kind of media hate crime is.

Jesus, Spitting. Do you REALLY want to say something like that, when 6 people are dead?

I feel sorry for anyone who is treated unkindly and nastily by another person, no matter which gender, but it is never ever justification for killing someone.

This girl doesn't deserve to have her name and life splattered across the tabloids because a very disturbed young man named her in his rantings. She has nothing to do with this. If it hadn't been her, it would have been someone else.

so you do know where she lives don't you?

After the police got involved her parents moved her to be with other relatives.

I don't care what she said to him and I think you post is disgraceful.

Think what you like Flora.

When your (disabled) child gets picked on so that they are in a crying heap day after day for months on end, THEN you'll know what it feels like to be a mother.

So don't any of you slate me because I can see things also from the other side.

Hmm. There are issues in what you raise, Spittin, but they don't speak at all to what I'm raising, which is the way that this girl is being shamed on the world's most viewed website, the deep misogyny that is so casually spewed out for public consumption. This boy fucking SHOT other people. Why is she the focus? why her sexual conduct? why her body?

I'm sorry that your son experienced what this girl did to him, but surely the response is, some people can be awful? I don't doubt that young men torment young women in at least equal number.

What you're talking about is essentially provocation, which the law here makes provision for - presumably there is a comparable defence in the US. A charge of murder can be reduced if there was a loss of control due to a qualifying trigger - if the defendant was in fear of serious violence, or had a 'justifiable sense of being seriously wronged', whatever that means (not a lawyer). The fear of violence has to come from the victim, I'm not sure about being seriously wronged. Ie if A wrongs B, B shoots C.

My point is, I sincerely doubt that this young woman's behaviour falls within the bounds of what the criminal law decrees relevant.

So don't any of you slate me because I can see things also from the other side.

I don't think anyone is belittling your son's experience, spittin.

What people are objecting to is you posting this information on a thread about 7 people dying because a young man hated women.

You need to start your own thread before you really upset someone.

Spitting
I am sure all of us feel empathy towards your son, and towards you, for the suffering this girls brought to you both. I don't think this is at all equivalent to the situation described.

I don't know if you've been following the story beyond the basic facts in the mainstream media, but the man posted on misogynistic websites, and spewed hatred of women in many blog posts and videos that he posted.

Spitting, do you think your son is as entitled as Elliot? Do you think he thinks he is owed blondes? Does he lead a privileged life and yet feel hard done by?

NO idea why you're identify with him, and it's sad because it shows that there will be people reading the DM article and they will think 'ah, a woman's fault, knew it'.

But WHY did he hate women? That's why I joined in - to show you HOW it can happen

porn?
entitlement?

lots of men don't need a reason to hate women! you think misogyny is RARE?

Typical misogynistic angle from the DM.

Appalling that they printed photos of her - even blurred.

Of course no-one worth listening to is going to blame her, but it's still horrible for her to be linked in any way.

Who knows Nancy66, but you can always rely in the Mail to find a woman to blame for most things in life.

This is why I think this is a hate crime:

I think it invites people to project. I don't know this young woman at all, and I project my feelings of fear onto her, carried over from times when I have been physically attacked for being a woman. I fear for her. I really do.

Other people may feel encouraged to project feelings of rage, gathered from experiences (real of imagined) of being rejected, hurt, belittled by (real or imagined) women.

I would say that such public "putting in the stocks" really does invite people to actually act out their revenge fantasies - though obviously a lot of people will just keep it to verbal musings.

This is what the killer had in mind when he named her. The Daily Mail is not so naive that they don't know this is the end result. Would the editor allow this to be done to a daughter of his? Probably not.

It's horrible. I really do think it's a hate crime.

Basically Spitting, unless your son has Narcissistic Personality Disorder like that guy clearly had, then it's bizarre to leap in and take his 'side' in any way.

Every news organisation under the sun could be in touch with her for a "comment", it wouldn't make it right. The pressure she must be under right now must be intolerable and none of this is her fault. Her name was menti

spittin, you said your son managed, with your help, to build up resilience, and, I assume, get over it.

You got the police involved.

The woman moved away.

So why are you still so angry that you are threatening to do something awful to her if you find out where she lives?

I'm NOT taking his side Ryvita - I'm just saying how these things can happen.

If you've ever tried to stop an autistic teenager from flattening someone, you'd know where I was coming from.

And DID he have NPD? Who has diagnosed him?

Mentioned and now her body plastered all over the press, all the papers who do this are beyond the pale.

The Mail haven't blamed women though - the killer did.

Spitting
Do you think that a one-time bullying episode would so warp someone that they would commit such crime? Lots of children are bullied. If this was the consequence, we'd see a lot more mass killings.

There is a good collection of blogs here, that give a bit of background and explanation. You should read some of them.

So because one girl was a bitch to your son Spitten you now blame all girls?

spittinfevvers, there's a thread in the Feminism section that discusses, in part, what might have caused this man to hate women.

I'll give you my tuppence-worth:

Quite often, it really isn't anything any particular woman has done. In the past, quite often, where there was no wife or girlfriend to blame, the mother was blamed: she was too cold, too smothering, too dominant; too weak. I would say that this was just more - institutional - woman-blaming.

This chap, again, very helpfully, left us a list of reasons. In the main, he said, it was because women wouldn't sleep with him.

Interestingly, that does fit in with a lot of feminist theory (which I believe, actually): men have a deep-rooted belief that they are entitled to a woman to sleep with, to cherish them, to look up to thim, to give them lots of attention. And lots of men are enraged when this doesn't happen for them.

As an aside: My brother in law is like this, actually - to a tee. Seriously. He's charming and nice but ... there is a huge rage in him. He earns 60K and he doesn't have a little wife. He's angry. So, it isn't just men out there that think like this. It really can be the man next to you.

That's just one reason for the hate. There are other suggestions.