This is what misogyny and male entitlement leads to.

[BriarRainbowshimmer]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2638049/7-dead-drive-shooting-near-UC-Santa-Barbara.html

22 yo man murders 7 people as revenge for women not sleeping with him.

"Why are girls sexually attracted to obnoxious, brutish men instead of sophisticated gentlemen such as myself?"

cross posted with buffy...there ya go

now try not to tell her she can't possibly understand because she is a white middle class yappy woman who doesn't know what it feels like to suffer at the hands of misogyny, yah ?

this is how it works

ANyfucker ok but I will avoid doing so because it would probably cause negative feeling between posters due to the carry on that would occur from this thread.

x-posted with 22. Sorry that happened to you.

'now try not to tell her she can't possibly understand because she is a white middle class yappy woman who doesn't know what it feels like to suffer at the hands of misogyny, yah ?'

Never said that to her. I stated the basic fact that poor women are more likely to 'suffer at the hands of misogyny', not that any poster doesnt know how it feels.

Stop derailing the thread! :)

ANyfucker ok but I will avoid doing so because it would probably cause negative feeling between posters due to the carry on that would occur from this thread.

Stop derailing the thread!

Now we are getting somewhere !

Will shut up for a while now. Too many cross posts occurring (by me)

I have a mysogynist to deal with on another thread, anyway.

Honey I completely agree that holding men and women to different standards of behaviour because they are different is wrong and damaging.

I'm sorry about your experiences. Trying to just carry on with life after being raped is hard enough. When you are being blamed for it it must feel fucking impossible.

For what it's worth I think you've got a lot of things to say that are worth listening to.

But can I please ask you to stop misquoting me saying I think "middle class women are vulnerable" I never said it and you've acknowledged I never said it and then you've brought it up again! It makes me feel like you are twisting my words and not allowing me to discuss the issue with you.

'It's also deeply sad that so many young girls internalise the misogynistic attitudes you experienced and then police the behaviour of other women'

Yes, it seems to be ingrained in a lot of people's minds from a very young age. Why that is I don't know, I never held such sexist views myself especially not at such a young age, maybe they had very conservative parents.

From Amanda Hess' article:

"Another young woman was alone at the bar when an older man scooted next to her. He was aggressive, wasted, and sitting too close, but she smiled curtly at his ramblings and laughed softly at his jokes as she patiently downed her drink. “Why is she humoring him?” my friend asked me. “You would never do that.” I was too embarrassed to say: “Because he looks scary” and “I do it all the time.”

Women who have experienced this can recognize that placating these men is a rational choice, a form of self-defense to protect against setting off an aggressor. But to male bystanders, it often looks like a warm welcome, and that helps to shift blame in the public eye from the harasser and onto his target, who’s failed to respond with the type of masculine bravado that men more easily recognize."

I do this and I hate it about myself. I never feel brave enough to just say "Excuse me I just want to get on with reading this book." Or "Can you excuse us, we're in the middle of a conversation."

Even just imagining saying it makes me feel uncomfortable.

And this from Sarah Ditum:

"Not all misogynists kill. But all misogyny creates the conditions in which women are killed, raped and abused, and in which women fear being killed, raped or abused. This is not complicated. It is simple, it is deadly, and it is the reason feminism is necessary."

Has been what I've been scrabbling to say in my crappy, inarticulate way!

Am having a conversation about this on FB, so don't want to reproduce it all here, but it certainly resonates with a lot of women

And yet women who do come out and say "I have no wish to have a conversation with you, kindly leave me alone" are seen as rude, too "blunt", manhating, aggressive or even not feminine enough.

It sucks. Why does his need to not be offended trump mine ?

We've been trained. I was blunter and more direct when I was younger and got name-called, threatened and questioned over it. Sometimes it's just too tiring to stand up. Sometimes you just let one go.

22 honey said No, but 'hard working' middle class people DO have a collective voice and have had an influence on this countries recent policies and also the media annihilation of poor mothers on benefits actually came about due to bitter better off people bemoaning the fact they get council houses, benefits etc."

I disagree. I think you have this the wrong way around. The propaganda in the press comes first. Look at history. In 1930s Germany there were posters up everywhere and articles in their press about how much disabled people and poor people were costing the nation. Sadly we have not learnt from history and it seems that facism still takes hold in times of economic uncertainty.

And it is the magazines aimed at working class women like Womans Own Woman etc who run benefits propaganda.

Ive bought many of the more "upmarket" mags in my time New Woman Eve Marie Claire Easy Living Red Psychologies. And ive NOT seen even ONE benefits propaganda article in any of them.

Darksesteyes I dont read women's magazines at all since I was about 15, benefits propaganda is all over main TV and news websites, its nothing to do with womens magazines.

Who does the propaganda come from? Middle class journalists, well off media types etc.

AF, I have seen men online state it isn't 'polite' for women not to entertain conversation with any man that wants to.

It seems women are expected to do all they can to feed a mans ego, even humour him.

22 honey the media executives at the top are 99% male

, its nothing to do with womens magazines.

Yes it is They are part of the problem Woman especially really had it in for single mothers last year and the year before and just this week WO have run an article on the "rise in female benefit fraudsters"

I wonder how many financially abused single parents are going to wrongly get reported for fraud by a nosey neighbour because of articles like this.

What they wont see is the ex not paying the child support. But hey never mind. The mum can pay the CSA £20 to sort it and everything will be sweet.

Darkesteyes Well yes they are male no one denied that. Do you mean its a male trait to benefit bash also? Because that is wholly incorrect, some men are sympathetic to the plight of the poor and some women are huge benefit bashers.

'Yes it is They are part of the problem Woman especially really had it in for single mothers last year and the year before and just this week WO have run an article on the "rise in female benefit fraudsters" '

You were saying that the benefit bashing is in working class womens magazines like Woman's Own and that you had never seen any benefit bashing in middle class womens magazines. I stated my opinion has sod all to do with women's magazines because I don't read them and that all the benefit bashing I have seen has been on main Tv channels and News websites.

Stop trying to berate me constantly. Its ridiculous to suggest benefit bashing comes from purely working class women's magazines.

I didn't say it comes purely from working class womens mags.

I said they are PART of the problem.

And its the execs at the top who decide on the content.
Most of whom are male.

22honey

You were not being bashed there. It's a discussion. Offering a different opinion isn't bashing. Darkest is clearly engaged and interested in what you have to say and is just telling you what she thinks.

I think your defensive reactions are a real shame.