Are sexual insult words ever justified? (follow on from an AIBU thread - wrong place)

[kentishgirl]

So....

slag and slut. Strong words. Anti-women/anti-feminist?

But are there ever behaviours that warrant their use?

I'm not thinking of women's sexual behaviour that is not deliberately harmful such as having sex with however many partners, in a certain way, dressing in a certain way, etc etc that at times attracts those words in a manner that of course I do not in any way support. Slut shaming and so on is appalling.

But is there a need for a word (for both sexes) that covers sexual behaviour that is deliberately harmful to others? Because if there is, I can't think of any alternatives.

We have words for positive behaviour and people. Kind, thoughtful, courageous, hero and heroine.

We have words for negative behaviour and people. Cruel, liar, murderer, mugger.

Assuming that we need these labels (and I think we do need a vocabulary that covers these things), do we need a label for sexually harmful behaviour/people?

Those who deliberately infect others with STDs?
Those who have affairs?

Which gets to why I was thinking about this. My ex had an affair. At the time (to him) I referred to her as 'your slag' and 'your slut' and her name in my head is still simply 'Slag': it has become her identity for me. Yes I know he is the one who cheated on me. There are words to cover his actions at the time: cheat; liar; manipulative; deceitful; disloyal; etc etc etc. She did not cheat, she did not lie to me, she did not manipulate me, she did not deceive me, she was not disloyal to me. These same words cannot apply to her or her behaviour. Yet she displayed 'negative' behaviour in that she knew what the situation was, and I don't think many of us support the idea that it's ok to sleep with a married man. So what words are there for this behaviour/person, if I can't use slut/slag? When I use them here, I'm not being anti-women, I'm describing the behaviour of one woman. But I am uncomfortable with those words because of the way they are usually used to attack women who aren't doing anything wrong.

Are there any alternatives? Am I wrong in thinking we need a vocabulary to express that sexual behaviour can be wrong? Should we never judge another woman for her sexual behaviour?

[TheDoctrineOfSnatch]

Op, we don't have an epithet for lots if things. A bad parent is a bad parent, a lazy worker is a lazy worker.

To you this woman has been heartless, thoughtless, selfish and many of the words Buffy listed. Does there need to be a one word description?

[AnyFucker]

It's better I suppose to use descriptive terms about the behaviour demonstrated as opposed to labelling the perpetrator IYSWIM

So she is cunning, devious, without morals, duplicitous, idiotic etc etc which avoids the worst of the women-hating shit

[RamsaySnowsSausage]

kentish I absolutely don't think it's morally ok to sleep with someone who is married and not separated/in an open relationship.

I still believe the responsibility to the wronged partner lies solely with the cheater but it's natural to feel contempt for someone who was complicit in wrecking your relationship.

I just don't think it's ok to compromise feminist principles because you are hurt. Using sexist words ultimately damage yourself and your daughters, mother etc. ...and mean you lose the moral highground!

[AmberTheCat]

I was wondering when I wrote that if it was an unsisterly thing to think. I don't know. I think maybe it's that marriage is something I'm a bit sceptical about, so I don't necessarily think about someone who's married in a different way from someone who isn't. I'm sure I'd feel personally very uncomfortable at playing a part in a relationship breaking down, but I think the blame would lie squarely with the person who'd made and broken a commitment to someone else.

[TheDoctrineOfSnatch]

Also, slut, slag etc don't imply a negative judgement on infidelity to me, they imply a negative judgement on women (primarily) who have sex outside a relationship, usually with various partners.

[Nocomet]

If a woman knows a man is married (is in a long term relationship), she is a slut, a tart, a bitch and any other unpleasant word you wish to use and he is to quote DSIS reason for not sleeping with a certain
Man "a lying cheating, bastard"

And all these words are mild compared to what I think of DFs, H and his OW.

[Creeping]

I've thought of a word that is used for a man that refers to his sexual behaviour negatively, but it's not usually used in relation to cheating: cock lodger. But it's the only one I can think of while there are lists of words to describe women.

[AskBasil]

Also cocklodger is quite a new word isn't it?

I'd never heard it before I came on Mumsnet and lots of people in RL still don't recognise it.

I wish I had known it when I first met my xdp...

[AskBasil]

You used to get more words to describe a man with bad sexual morals/ behaviour, but they've fallen out of use. Someone has mentioned the word cad, which was a serious insult at one point and wolf was also used to describe a sexual predator. I think as caddishness and wolfishness has actually become more acceptable, they're no longer appropriate insults - they belong to a time when the behaviours they describe were actually frowned upon (if it were being displayed towards women of a certain social class of course - it didn't matter if you were only subjecting lower class women to that behaviour, in that case the insults weren't relevant).

[AskBasil]

And of course cocklodgers were not a widespread phenomenon like they are now - the social and economic position of women meant that by definition, that opportunity to be a cock-lodger was pretty restricted

[KoalaFace]

I agree that using words to describe behaviour is preferable to a putdown that will ultimately just be used against women in general.

OP you described your ex's behaviour wonderfully. The OW showed herself to have a completely selfish, disregard for you and your relationship. She was cruel.

[TeiTetua]

Someone said "a lying cheating, bastard" above, and I'm pretty sure nobody would call a woman that. So that would be a gendered insult directed at a man.

[Keepithidden]

This thread has made me think a lot. I'm not sure whether language and it's use is a reflection on the society in which it is used or vice-versa though.

Words tend to be pretty transitionary things, at the moment the words the OP uses do tend to be insults directed at women, because they are women. However they are being used elsewhere in different contexts for different purposes I think. The stereotypical Essex-Boy/East End Gangster is often heard referring to anyone (gender unspecific) as a "slaaag" (emphasis on the "a" due to the accent). "Tart" is another one that seems to have a less gendered role: I've known an audience in a marketing situation referred to as "brand tarts" due to their lack of brand loyalty. Paralells can be drawn here I suppose with racist language too.

I suppose, as ever, context is everything. In 95% (or at least the poverwhelming majority) of situations these words are likley to be mysoginistic on some level though.

Having said that, if we start using them in a non-gendered way maybe language can be forced into making changes on society!

[TheDoctrineOfSnatch]

There are plenty of gendered insults but they rarely refer to the sexual behaviour of men.

[mrsbrownsgirls]

you don't need special vocabulary. you just need to move on. Good luck

[RamsaySnowsSausage]

Keepit that reminds me of the 'sandwich slag' thread.

[AnyFucker]

There are some newer non-gender insults coming up through the teen route

"scruff" is changing meaning slightly to describe slovenly, dodgy, low rent, morally repugnant behaviour

also "scrub" which I thought was short for "scrubber" (usually ascribed to women) is often used about men who cocklodge and dodge responsibilities

[TheDoctrineOfSnatch]

As in "I don't want no scrubs"?

[AnyFucker]

yup

[TheDoctrineOfSnatch]

I find that strangely heartening.

[AnyFucker]

I don't want no scrub, scrub is a guy that can't get no love from me

Hanging out the passenger side of his best friend's ride, tryin' to holler at me...

[TheDoctrineOfSnatch]

Or, to paraphrase "piss off, you sexist twat"

[AnyFucker]

Summat like that

[AnyFucker]

...and quit the idiotic catcalling

[Keepithidden]

Ramsay - The "sandwich slag" thread? That particular gem must've passed me by! What was the synopsis?