AmnestyInternational Prostitution

[JuliaScurr]

Please tweet #Amnesty agm in support of Nordic Model
Pimps out in force

@grimble, yes a lot of men are horny and aren't picky. I don't think many would argue with that.

"Yes women who want sex can get as many perverts and creeps as she wants."

You don't have to say yes to every tom, dick and harry who talks to you. You can wait for a guy who meets your list of criteria (handsome, in good shape, sociable, funny, witty, charming, big wallet etc etc)

This is the crux of your argument, sote? That some men will shag anything, and that women could shag those men if they wanted to?

And that justifies men buying women to shag? That justifies the organised crime that surrounds prostitution? The buying and selling of women and children?

I think not.

Yes of course all women want is a man with lots of money.

Your misogyny is showing so clearly.

My point is that's one reason (some) men will visit a sexworker. They just need to be clean, show up on time and show the green. Much more convenient than getting a relationship or one night stand non?

I'm not saying it's right just pointing out (one of many reasons) why men may visit a sexworker.

"Yes of course all women want is a man with lots of money."

Of course not. It's just a stereotype and a myth.

You're sounding unhinged now, sote. Bugger off - you're clearly here with an anti-women agenda.

Well why do you think men visit sexworkers?

Because punters (a small minority of men - we're talking 10% or less here) are shallow, abusive scumbags.

You realise not all men pay to shag women? And that many that do would have no problem getting sexual partners? Hugh Grant, anyone?

Your argument is bollocks.

Men visit sex workers because they like sex. Nothing wrong with that in and of itself. However the dehumanization, and objectification of women to a reduction of body parts is wrong. Very wrong.

Here's a news flash for you women really like sex too, but because of its commercialization and the very real threat of being on the recieving end of sexual violence the experience comes with threats and fears that makes going our for a nice night out has the element of being behind enemy lines during a time of war, and some men are actively hunting them.

Consider this if you will as a thought experiment, say you go out for a night hoping for some fun, only 10% of women are actually burly strong shapeshifting monsters who with absolutely no warning whatsoever when they have you alone will grow a penis and bugger you senseless irrespective of your thoughts on the matter, more to the point no one believes you, because society doesn't believe in monsters. Do you think that in any way shape or form that might cause you to approach the dating/hookup scene a little differently?

Women like sex just as much as men, sometimes more so! Do you know what I'll take that I can go out and relax and if I see a nice girl and overcome the butterflies in my stomach to make an approach as the better end of deal, compared to her who had to make the calculation of wether or not behind my warm smile am I actually a fucking monster?

Newsflash whatever rights you think you have re: the sale of sex commercialization of sex feeds into the status quo, and it's a status quo that needs deconstruction and replacement pretty damn quick.

"You realise not all men pay to shag women? And that many that do would have no problem getting sexual partners? Hugh Grant, anyone?

Your argument is bollocks."

I said it's one reason. Not the only reason.

Catharine MacKinnon also said men who were falsely accused of rape could "gain from the experience". So fuck whatever she has to say.

"In prostitution, the man gets to ignore the women's sexual wants and her expectations. He controls her. He knows that."

Newsflash- sexworkers have the right to say no. If she says no to something and the client goes ahead anyway she can charge him with sexual assault or rape.

Countries where prostitution is legal such as the UK recognize this. Countries where it is outright illegal such as most of the USA don't recognize this (if a sexworker in the US is raped I sadly doubt she would have a leg to stand on if she wanted to take it to court).

Considering the difficulty of proving rape when it often boils down to one persons word against another, and the presumption of innocence meaning the burden of proof lies with the accuser. How many times out of ten say when a sex worker who has been raped does it result in a conviction? Yes you can pontificate about her having the "right" in law, but how often does it go anywhere in practice?

Google saafe, it's a support site for women who do this. Notice there is a WHOLE section devoted to warnings and wasters. Notice how often the subject of condom rippers comes up:

That.Is.Rape.

And it seems to happen often enough, and with enough regularity that they evidently feel the need to warn each other about it. Now your are on a sticky wicket now, because if you wish to disagree with me here your are marginalising the voices of the women you are claiming to champion. Although I suspect you cherry pick whatever supports your agenda and ignore everything else.

This idea that women are only interested in sex in return for cash and/or goods, and that they don't have any preferences from a sexual attraction point of view but are simply bought, has come up on this thread before hasn't it.

It's an extremely unusual view, a very extreme view, and a real coincidence that it has come up on this thread twice from two different posters.

I also like the idea that the only point of a relationship for a man, is sex. Again, that is a very unusual and extreme view. Fortunately the vast vast majority of men do not feel that way, they enjoy relationships for a variety of reasons and understand that women are in fact more than a walking set of 3 orifices.

I am not sure it is worth engaging with a person with that view of 51% of humanity.

I agree removing a condom without knowledge and consent is rape and clients who do this should be prosecuted. But in countries like the USA where prostitution is outright illegal (except parts of Nevada) sexworkers who are victims of sexual assault or rape have even less chance of getting a prosecution since judges over there have the attitude "well they received payment that means they can't be raped".

@NiceTabard, for the millionth time, sexworkers are not "bought". Their time and services are bought.

"they evidently feel the need to warn each other about it."

Good job sexwork is legal so they can publicly warn each other about it. If sexwork was illegal (even just the purchase of) then websites such as SAAFE would be illegal.

Giving advice of any sort regarding escorting or sexwork is classed as "facilitating a violent crime" under Sweden's model.

Of course websites like that would not be illegal.

They would be actually.

In N. Ireland (who are looking at implementing the nordic model) it's been suggested the use of such websites should be seen as seriously as looking at child porn and carry the same sentences.

I ain't kidding.

Access to their orifices is bought. Or other sexual acts. That is kind of the entire point of the transaction. To pretend otherwise is bizarre.

I am also not sure how that ties in with the post about obtaining sex generally:

"If a man wants a one night stand and isn't drop dead gorgeous he would have to spend all evening parting with money for drinks etc while being funny, charming, sociable, witty etc. And then after all that maybe he could get sex. (Or he could just skip all that and book a sexworker.)"

You seem to be squeamish about saying that men who (in your words) "book a sexworker" are paying for sex but when it comes to obtaining sex from non-sexworkers you are quite upfront that what is desired is access to orifices and that the men who want this need to pay for it in the form of goods.

Your posts are contradictory and bizarre.

Good to add to the list of things that men who buy sex are bizarrely squeamish about:

1. Prostitutes having more than a certain number of customers in an hour / day / week / whatever
2. The idea of straight men prostituting themselves to other men
3. The statement that men who give money to women who are selling sex, are spending that money on sex

While Scotland and England have so far been able to fend off the nordic model. I expect N. Ireland will pass it.

For a country to make prostitution illegal you need 1 of 2 things- a large religious influence on the law or a large radical feminist influence on the law. N. Ireland has the former.