Newnight report on brothels

[itshardthinkingofanickname]

Worth £16 billion in Germany. Legal to "make it safer".

Interview with 22 yr old Hannah. 6 men per night, earns 100 to 1000 euros per night,

Talking about should it be illegal in the UK and the fact that brothels are safer than the streets. They have super brothels in Germany.

The E.Parliament did vote in favour of the Honeyball report, but the voting is non-binding ie the EU can't force any country to change laws on sex work each country can still decide on its own legislation.

For what it's worth if you only look at how the UK MEPs voted, they mostly voted against the Honeyball report.

"Sex workers: thought to be the most legitimate at first, but then discredited somewhat when people realise that this term is a catch-all and is often the voice of pimps"

This pisses me off, when sex workers are accused of being "pimps" just because they advocate decriminalization.

Well over 500 academics urged MEPs to vote against Mary Honeyball's recent report. Mary's response? She called them all "pimps". IMO "pimp" is a term thrown around far too often in an attempt to falsely throw mud at to try and discredit people with a different stance.

"Survivors: should be very legitimate, but isn't given much credence. Why?"

Why do you put survivors and sex workers in a different category? If they are still alive and breathing then sex workers (current and former) are survivors too.

Rhino - Some people who call themselves sex workers are pimps and defend the right to use the term. Sex worker is a catch all term. I have seen it being used by someone who is a cashier at a sex shop, photographer, etc.

And some of the 470 organisations are pimp sponsored organisations.

It is not falsely throwing mud to speak the truth.

Survivors are women who have been prostituted and reject the phrase sex workers.

Clients of prostituted women are rapists.

Some of those 470 organisations are pimp sponsored organisations. If anyone wants to get a list of supporters taken seriously, maybe don't include pimp sponsored organisations on it?

And Brooke Magnanti can call herself an ex sex worker or survivor.

Those many women who have left prostitution and speak out about the realities, are free to call themselves survivors.

Language means someting. Which is why Rhino doesn't like the term survivor that many women who used to be in prostitution use.

And over ride the desire of the women themselves to call themselves survivors?

Like Survivors United which actually does have over 170 members who have been prostituted.

I suspect Rhino would instead like us to listen to the International Sex Workers Union, which has 10 members, including the pimp Douglas Fox.

I have no desire to redefine anything. I'm just pointing out even sex workers who don't support the Nordic Model are also survivors. You say we should listen to survivors? Then why ignore survivors like Brooke Magnanti and Laura Lee? They are still alive.

The only (alleged) prostitute I've seen use the term survivor is Rachel Moran, other than her I've only seen it used by feminists and a couple of politicians.

And for the record D.Fox himself isn't a pimp, but his partner has an escort website with about half a dozen escorts on it.

And I gotta love the fact just because Fox's partner has a (very small) escort website some are using that to try and discredit all sex-worker groups (IUSW is far from the only one) as "pimps" or "pimp-led" or "pimp-sponsored" or "pimp-lobbyists" or pimp-whateverthecurrenttermis.

I've googled "Mary Honeywell" and pimps and I can't find where she called academics "pimps". I'm going to have to assume this is just mud flinging by rhino.

I'd like to know who the 500 academics were, I'm going to say I don't believe this either.

Here is a list of how the UK MEPs voted, in case you are interested in writing to your MEP:

www.votewatch.eu/en/sexual-exploitation-and-prostitution-and-its-impact-on-gender-equality-motion-for-resolution-vote-fe.html

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/alex-bryce/sex-work-law_b_4858815.html

"outrageously suggesting that the NGOs who are opposing her proposals "are comprised of pimps"."

and

www.sexworkeurope.org/fr/news/general-news/560-ngos-and-91-researchers-demand-members-european-parliament-reject-ms-honeyball

Rhino - Survivors United has over 170 members, all of whom are survivors of prostitution. I have already mentioned them on this thread.

SPACE International is an organisation of survivors. Surprised you don't know about them as Rachel Moran is very involved.

And calling women who have left prostitution, is not on.

I personally know lots of women who call themselves survivors. But not all are up to being as out as Rachel Moran or Rebecca Mott, as they are not all up for getting the level of abuse they ultimately receive from the pro prostitution lobby.

And calling women who have left prostitution a liar, is not on.

Mary Honeyball is right, there are pimp sponsored organisations in that list of supporters.

Alex Bryce, the manager of National Ugly Mugs? I'm going to need a mountain of salt to go along with that one, not the most credible source. Also "comprised of pimps" is not the same as calling them all pimps.

I don't click on pimp lobby links but I can see from the link that your claim about 500 academics is not true. It says 560 NGOs and 91 researchers. Do you have an independent source for this claim?

If you want to be taken seriously, it would be useful not to make ridiculous claims.

oh I'm not calling RM a liar, that's why I said alleged, but I (among others) are suspicious.

If her story is true then how come noone can vouch for her? Like I said the Dublin sex worker community is very small and they all know and look out for each other. So isn't it a little strange RM just suddenly appears on the scene and no other sex worker has ever heard of her?

There's a sex worker who worked for 2 years on the same street RM claims to have also stood, and she never saw her once.

I believe her. But of course the pro prostitution lobby want to say publically she is a liar. She is very articulate and I am sure anything they can do to undermine her, they see as fair game.

And the over 170 survivors at Survivors United? Are they lying too?