Newnight report on brothels

[itshardthinkingofanickname]

Worth £16 billion in Germany. Legal to "make it safer".

Interview with 22 yr old Hannah. 6 men per night, earns 100 to 1000 euros per night,

Talking about should it be illegal in the UK and the fact that brothels are safer than the streets. They have super brothels in Germany.

How is it different?

Why are you invested in this issue?

"How is it different?"

I'm not a school teacher. If you still don't understand what a loaded question is go Google it.

I understand it when used correctly. I don't understand punter logic. As demonstrated in you first foray on this board, you struggle with logic.

If you struggle to get your point over and refuse to explain, I'm going to assume you're obfuscating.

I'm think that decriminalising prostitution would make me feel safer to report crimes.

Because if I reported an assault, for a start I would lose my baby. I've been told that if anyone, police, hospital staff or doctors find out that anything has happened to me through work that my baby would be taken into care, I've had to lie when receiving treatment. Also some landlords who find out that services were offered from their properties can evict tenants, so I can see how that would put women off reporting crimes. I'm lucky that my friend rents me a place but not all people have this luxury.

If our work was legal we wouldn't have the worry of our children and homes being taken from us, among other things.

You're the one who struggles with simple logic if you can't understand what a loaded Q is.

examples

"do you pay for sex"- not loaded

"why do you pay for sex"- loaded (makes an assumption)

"do you still pay for sex"- also loaded (makes an assumption)

Get it now?

migsy the people who have told you that are the ones who are trying to keep you in prostitution - is it your friend who tells you this? You are not lucky - your "friend" is exploiting you. You don't even know how much money you supposedly still owe him. If you speak to Women's Aid, they can help you and will give you unbiased advice about how you can get help. Unlike your "friend", they are not trying to keep you in place, they are not making money from selling you to many men.

puntercornn you are confused. I did not ask you those questions. I asked if you were a punter and you said that was loaded.

Not surprising really.

Tell me, why are you so invested in this issue of prostitution?

@migsy good points. And none of them would be solved if the uk implemented the nordic model.

Just look at what happened in Sweden last year. Petite Jasmine reported her abusive bf to the police. Do you know what the police did? Because she made a report they found out she was a prostitute, so they took her baby off her- and gave the baby to him! Tragically he then later murdered her.

Two women are murdered every week in the UK by abusive male partners puntercorn.

"puntercorn"

oh so now the ad-hominem, personal attacks and defamation starts?

Why is it an attack pc? What's wrong with being a punter?

Here we are then:

As you aren't a punter, under what circumstances would you be? What would lead you to fucking a woman (or man) who didn't want to fuck you?

And another one:
what would it take for you to consider renting your holes to others? Your mouth, anus, vagina if you have one?

Neither of these questions are loaded by your definition.

Migsy, under the Swedish model your client would already be a criminal. Additional criminal things he did to you would compound the crime.

If the model came with enough funding for all prostitutes to go and pursue other careers (like nursing for you) would you feel differently about it? You are talking about life after decriminalisation of yourself and the criminalisation of your punters as carrying on in prostitution but that wouldn't be the goal.

(Yes, I know there's not infinite money but I'd prefer a penny on income tax for this than for lots of other things!)

The fact that Petite Jasmine lost her children to an abusive man is horrible and I think a mistake on the part of the Swedish authorities - such mistakes happen here too eg when abusive fathers get joint residency. The fact that he then killed her in the presence of a social worker who he also stabbed is hugely tragic and underlines the mistake of the Swedish authorities.

I don't agree that the 'entitlement' argument is bollocks. It is the argument that Amnesty has brought to the top of the agenda - that "people" ie. men have the right to buy sex. They agree on the "imperfect context" of prostitution - but this seems to be of a secondary concern to Amnesty when compared to men's right to have sex

I sincerely hope Amnesty don't go down this particular route - because they have voice of men like Douglas Fox and his partner heralding them at the moment. Not a good move.

On the subject of Douglas Fox and his partner - the latter is one of the examples of the pimp lobby that peppercornn was asking Flora about. Pretending to speak for prostitutes, when in reality he has confused the words prostitute with "profit." I consider owning an escort agency to be pimping. Why his voice should be one of the strongest voices in the debate, I have no idea - he is profiting from the sex industry, so of course he'll argue for complete for complete decriminalisation. It's his wallet talking.

Migsy you can start on your road to being a nurse whenever you want. It is your choice. There are places you can go to get away from this and get the support you need.

What happened in Sweden was that they turned prostitution on its head, showing it for what it really is, a violation of women. They shame the punters and this has probably been the best deterrent. Men don't need prostitutes, they won't keep on coming back if it's made harder for them. The thing that keeps demand high is the ease in which men can get what they want and this is encouraged by other men who are feeding off the 'industry'.

Migsy now is the time to start looking at courses to get you onto the nursing degree. Applications for degree level courses are done in January but you might want to do a foundation or preparatory course which you could apply for now to start in September.

"On the subject of Douglas Fox and his partner - the latter is one of the examples of the pimp lobby that peppercornn was asking Flora about."

Flora used "pimp lobby" to refer to ex-prostitute Gaye Dalton and other prostitutes who worked at the same time and vicinity as Rachel claims to have worked.

The discussion wasn't about Douglas Fox- who for the record, is a male escort and not a pimp (it's his partner who has an escort website with about 6 or 7 escorts). And both he and AI have made clear he had nothing to do with AI's policy. Someone from AI who answered Qs on here said AI consulted dozens of prostitute groups worldwide prior to making the policy.

And I doubt buying sexual services is hard in Sweden. A tonne of escort contact details can be found in seconds on any major internet search engine.

If a client does come to court to get a conviction the prostitute must testify against him, and most workers don't want to do that.

All the police and court time/resources/money it takes in Sweden to drag a client through court only for the case to fall flat when it emerges the prostitute doesn't want him convicted is just a waste of time and money wouldn't you agree? Wouldn't it be better if that money was used for support services instead?

All the police and court time/resources/money it takes in Sweden to drag a client through court only for the case to fall flat when it emerges the prostitute doesn't want him convicted is just a waste of time and money wouldn't you agree? Wouldn't it be better if that money was used for support services instead?

This I agree with.

Great post, WhenThe

Apparently 1 in 9 prosecutions in magistrates' courts are for TV license fee evasion and result in 70 jail sentences a year.

I will happily spend that money on support (by which I assume you mean "exit") services.

Incidentally, when punnters compare prostitutionto cleaning etc, they never seem to acknowledge there are no exit services for cleaners.

But why do you try to smear prostitutes and ex-prostitutes by referring to them as the "pimp lobby"?

A large number of prostitutes advocate decriminalisation (and so do AI after consulting dozens of prostitute groups worldwide).

Yes support can include support to exit if that is what the prostitute wishes.