Newnight report on brothels

[itshardthinkingofanickname]

Worth £16 billion in Germany. Legal to "make it safer".

Interview with 22 yr old Hannah. 6 men per night, earns 100 to 1000 euros per night,

Talking about should it be illegal in the UK and the fact that brothels are safer than the streets. They have super brothels in Germany.

Who knows better? Women who are prostitutes? Or women who are not prostitutes?

"How will prostitution become safe if decriminalised?"

An example at the moment if 2 women work together for safety they are committing the crime of running a brothel.

"How will it become more dangerous if the women are decriminalised and the men who buy women and who profit from women are not decriminalised?"

Because if prostitutes don't want their clients criminalized they will need to go about their job just as if it were illegal outright to try and avoid the police.

police also have access to telephone intercepts, which suggest that traffickers no longer regard Sweden as a worthwhile market

This is how the Nordic model works - the devil is in the detail and this is it. We can only do this with a Warrant signed by the Secretary of State so it is unlikely to work over here without a change in this law.

It's the reason why child abuse has become so prevalent - we put liberalist principles before the protection of the vulnerable.

WhentheRed Yes prostitution is underground, legalisation will help bring it out in the open, with more state scrutiny. This can only be a good thing and would help to reduce the stigma.

It would become safer because at the minute if I reported a crime that happened to me, I would risk losing my home. So I don't report things that happen to me. I feel unsafe working on my own, I don't know who I'm seeing. I have seen some aggressive punters who I have to put up with because there is no one else there to protect me. At least in a brothel I would feel safer surrounded by other people.

Prostitution isn't a 'special activity' it's just another public service job imo. It's not like drugs or murder or drink driving. Selling sex doesn't harm anyone, it's just work. So why make it practically impossible for us to continue to work?

We already have laws against child abuse. Why not work on enforcing those instead of focusing on what adults do in their own bedrooms and hotel rooms?

well, let's hope the punters choose a trafficked woman or underage girl; if they are interviewed sensitively they will give evidence against the punters

An article opposing Mary Honeyball and the Nordic model www.totalpolitics.com/print/428222/a-response-to-mary-honeyball.thtml

It states that only about 8% of street prostitutes are trafficked, so including indoor prostitution, it is an even lower proportion. If we accept that and half it that makes 4% - one in 25.

How the hell is that acceptable?

As soon as you legalise - you legitimise. Demand increases - and suddenly the traffickers and profiteers see their opportunities.

You cannot separate it - when women are allowed to be treated as commodities, people will cash in. Women and children suffer.

It is men's choices that should be analysed. Why they think it is OK to purchase women? Why they don't care that prostitution largely affects vulnerable women? Why they think it is OK to make a profit out of selling women?

There is already a huge demand though. I've worked since 8:30 am and am only just now taking a break and then going back to work from 1pm till 5pm. This is for 5 days a week. I doubt there will be a sudden rush of men if it becomes legal, so many men use the service already.

yes scallops and more than that - why is it expected that men will pay to use another person as a masturbation aid?

migsy, prostitution has doubled in Germany since it was legalised. What do you think happens when there aren't enough women to meet that (legalised, legitimate) demand?

Well then the supply may increase. Maybe more women will enter the sex trade voluntarily instead of being trafficked if it's seen as a viable job?

@Julia, there are already laws in place to deal with trafficking. Passing a law which affects consenting adults will not help trafficked victims.

Migsy hi, I remember you from the other thread when I remember you were slightly jolted out of your complacency with your career choice. Did you ever take that break or look for counselling? I hope you did and I wish you well. It's interesting that you have come back to the discussion as most prostitutes avoid it.

You are the reason why the Nordic model evolved - because they found most women involved in prostitution were vulnerable due to a history of neglect or abuse. They decided that overall there was an imbalance of power and ultimately it was an issue of inequality between the sexes.

Men have a choice. They don't need to pay for sex with a stranger, they can go through the usual channels and find a woman they know to have sex with. Why make it easier for them?

Migsy remember that at the moment you are putting yourself at risk and therefore putting your daughter at risk. You will be picking up all kinds of unknown infections and diseases and going home to her. You are putting her at risk because something might happen to you and she might go into care. You are putting yourself at risk of further psychological damage which could also lead to her going into care. You have certainly normalised prostitution for her so that when she grows up she might go out and do the same thing and see nothing wrong with it.

It really is a choice you are making but to break out of the rut, the self-fulfilling prophecy that you are in you will need a lot of strength. The longer you stay the harder it will be.

Maybe Migsy, or maybe it will be like it is in Germany and the Netherlands, where women are trafficked in in greater numbers than ever before. Why would the UK be any different?

I don't think so. Already in Germany women are being trafficked to meet the demand. Brothel owners are demanding to be able to advertise in job centres to meet demand, or saying they will have to use trafficked women. This is only one step away from women losing benefits if they refuse to work as prostitutes.

Most women do not want to become prostitutes. It's never on a little girl's career wish list, is it?

Maybe it isn't that it has doubled, maybe because it's more open we have a better idea of how many are in the industry.

As opposed to a country which has criminalization where we don't have a clue how many are in the trade (except for what we can see on the streets).

"Brothel owners are demanding to be able to advertise in job centres to meet demand, or saying they will have to use trafficked women. "

I want to see a source for this one.

And anyway Germany and the Netherlands have legalization and regulation which generally isn't what sexworkers want. The impression I get is sexworkers tend to want decriminalization.

"You will be picking up all kinds of unknown infections and diseases and going home to her."

Do you think misgy engages in unprotected sex??

IMO STDs are far more likely to be transmitted through drunken one night stands than through sexwork.

STDs are far more likely to be transmitted through drunken one night stands than through sexwork.

Oh so that's OK then. Her whole body is involved in skin to skin contact with any old person, she says herself she doesn't know who they might be.

And she truly believes she's doing this for her daughter to have a better life.

Maybe it isn't that it has doubled, maybe because it's more open we have a better idea of how many are in the industry

This I agree with.

No I did not want to grow u to be a prostitute, but I got into in young and have never looked for another job so I must be happy to do it. I would doubt most little girls grow u wanting to be cleaners but life happens and you have to do what you have to do.

horsetowater

No I haven't had a break but I am on the list for counselling. I haven't decided whether to open up about my job though.

I always use a condom, although I have had people remove them and continue, so I am trying to reduce my exposure to infection.

I try and protect myself as much as I can, and like I said many times before I don't feel very safe because I'm working on my own. I've had stuff happen to me that I 100% know wouldn't have happened in a regulated, secure environment.

A good counsellor would enable you to feel comfortable to talk about what you need to, but it's usually best to be completely honest. They can't report you if that's what you're worried about, it's confidential.

filxiler: The source isa German brothel owner. Here:

www.uri.edu/artsci/wms/hughes/demand_for_victims.pdf

"In 2003, the owner of a newly opened brothel in Goerlitz, Germany, tried to place job advertisements for “hostesses for erotic services.” The German Federal Labor Office rejected the ads. The brothel owner said: “If the state says the women can work, I expect the authorities to do their part for me in return.” He said his efforts to recruit women by placing ads in the newspapers had failed. He claimed that he had men offering to help him staff his brothel by “selling” him women."

{Thanks to another poster for linking to this on the AI thread.}

Well he failed didn't he.