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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

The Feminist Pub (continued).

999 replies

UptoapointLordCopper · 23/11/2013 20:02

Been busy. Came back today to have a look but the Pub thread was full! Shock Shall we continue here?

Third episode of Borgen on tonight. Smile

OP posts:
youretoastmildred · 30/11/2013 23:50

have been appalled on the step-parenting threads recently. so many women being horrible about their dh's exes and children because they will do anything other than expect a man to take responsibility for his children. it is terrifying to see how effectively, in some contexts, women have been set against each other. I think it comes down to that thing again, of the crazy prioritisation of romance: the woman must do anything other than break the code of compliance that keeps her In A Relationship. some of the stuff on there is totes bonkers actually

Which reminds me, on another thread we were talking about MILs, and Scallops tantalised us with a theory about how or why they are so often perceived as narcissistic (was that what it was about?) and now I am dying of curiosity... come on Scallops!

kickassangel · 01/12/2013 04:21

The scary thing is I do think my MIL is certifiably bonkers, but then I know people in rl who hint as much.

CaptChaos · 01/12/2013 11:35

LordCopper, I think your manager and mine must have been working from the same script. I think I'll take a leaf from your book and write an email about it all, partly because it needs to be said and partly so I have a paper trail.

DS said that he's glad that his mum is a feminist, because he's been able to see the world differently from his mates. I love that boy, he may have ASD, but in a lot of ways he's more perceptive than his NT friends, he has to really think about things IYSWIM.

kickassangel · 01/12/2013 13:43

Capt, I was just reading an article about how ASD kids may have more empathy than NT ones, not less. They can be overwhelmed so they just retreat as they can't deal with it.

PacificDogwood · 01/12/2013 14:25

Oh, you've gotta love a good MiL stereotype, don't you? Hmm
My MiL is now dementing, but has always been rather difficult to her own family. I used to get on best with her Grin, probably because she had not installed my buttons, so couldn't press them...

And yy to women being set against each other.
There's a thread in Relationship where the wife has actually managed to compare notes with the ex-wife with results that strengthened her resolve, so the sisterhood worked there.

Good luck to the seahorse man - it'll be a struggle to change their biology but I am sure with enough persistence and mansplaining to them were they go wrong he'll sort it out.

My boys have shocking gender prejudices that I challenge all the time - DS2 was kicked in the face recently during a Tae Kwon Do lesson. He has a bruise above his eye (did not develop a shiner which he was v disappointed about) and a small scratch; I think he'll live. The problem was that he had been kicked by a girl Shock!! He really struggled with that. The fact that she is 2 grades above him, v good at TKD and also taller than him, did not console him. He totally has this 'males are physically superior to females' internalised. Many more conversations to follow, me thinks...

Original poster
UptoapointLordCopper · 01/12/2013 20:22

Hello!

Been away. Smile Will read later.

OP posts:
LRDtheFeministDragon · 01/12/2013 20:57

Just popping into the thread and settling into a corner with a coffee. Smile

pacific that sounds a thoroughly healthy (if humiliating) experience for your DS! Grin

youretoastmildred · 01/12/2013 22:36

good evening
just wrote some really nasty things on another thread, didn't mean them to be, just was thinking aloud in a theoretical way and forgot I was talking to / about a real person. will ask for them to be deleted
it is a warning sign of.... something, though. when I get all wrapped up in my head like that.
sorry that was feminism related but I can't say how because I don't want to say the nasty things again

nice to see you LRD. Hope you are well.

I'll just have a quick Earl Grey for the road, i think

hope you have all had a good weekend

LRDtheFeministDragon · 01/12/2013 22:38

Oh, that sounds tricky.

I think it is quite easy to do, though - to forget it's 'real' people or to get nastier than you meant. Hope you are ok in yourself.

LRDtheFeministDragon · 01/12/2013 22:38

(And nice to see you too.)

youretoastmildred · 01/12/2013 22:39

sometimes wonder what it would be like not to be mentally ill and afraid all the time that everything that I do wrong is pointing to some big apocalypse.

youretoastmildred · 01/12/2013 22:40

x-posted
thanks yes I am probably ok just a bit wobbly tonight but didn't realise it till just now
how are you?

TheDoctrineOfSanta · 01/12/2013 22:41

Welcome back LRD!

TheDoctrineOfSanta · 01/12/2013 22:41

/womanly pat on back>

Delete as applicable!

PleaseJustLeaveYourBrotherAlon · 01/12/2013 22:43

How come it would be against a man's human Rights to castrate him for raping a baby ....

But a woman can have her womb cut open and a baby removed with out her permission?

What part of being able to get pregnant makes you not human and deserving of human Rights

MooncupGoddess · 01/12/2013 22:49

...???

PleaseJustLeaveYourBrotherAlon · 01/12/2013 22:58

Sorry thought you would have seen article, being discussed in a few places on mn

PacificDogwood · 01/12/2013 23:02

Welcome, LRD, hope you had a nice holiday Smile

Please, I am not sure I understand - I don't think either of those scenarios are legal in this country?

mildred, I can totally understand how you (or anybody else) could do that: theoretise about something, forgetting the v real people behind the issue. I am sure you'll judge correctly what you can let stand and what MNHQ can get rid of for you.
I do think though that sometimes it is quite difficult to talk to people who will always only see exactly what happened to them, to their situation, when there can be wider issues. I tried to hint at that in the recent BFing thread, but tiktok ended up understanding that we are all 'trapped' in our own experiences and I don't think that is true.

PacificDogwood · 01/12/2013 23:04

x-post, Please.

I gather this will have been done under the Mental Health Act?

It's getting a bit late for me know, but just to mention that many years ago I had been involved in the care for a woman who refused CS which would have been required to save her baby's life, psychiatry were involved as were the courts and it was deemed that she had capacity to withhold consent. The baby died.

Upsetting all round - both these cases Sad

youretoastmildred · 01/12/2013 23:18

Pacific, no I don't think we are all "trapped in our own experience" either.
In fact, in my case, I think my getting things wrong is more the opposite in that I am always trying to take a sort of "out of body experience from the corner of the ceiling" view of things instead of inhabiting my experience properly
this can be very mistaken. Trying to synthesise things that, if they can be unified at all, should be done by making a rough twiggy bundle of disparate things and leaving them discrete

I blame the Enlightenment

I am going to go to bed but I would like to ask a (not very feminist) question (only because you are all so clever)

dd1, who is 4 and a half, went through a short phase of nightmares, and was very anxious for a while afterwards that she would have another one. she knew they were dreams, she knew they weren't real, but they were horrible experiences and she didn't want to have one. I told her I would do some "spells" to help prevent them and we got into a habit where every night I recite some rhythmic poetry and do a guided meditation for her. She likes it and she hasn't had a nightmare for a while.

Tonight she said "are these real spells? Are they magic?" I said "in a way" and said we'd talk about it later.

Please can you help me talk about "magic"? I can't pretend I do magic (so I can't say "yes") but I do think that meditation techniques are powerful and have actual effects, and I want her to know that as a truth, and also to bolster her confidence, so I don't want to say "no" either, if no means"it's just a game, and I'm just pretending and not really doing anything of importance".

I don't want to get into a whole "well what do you mean by magic?" thing but I want to say more than "no, it's not magic, so it is by implication trivial"

My mistake for using the word "spell" in the first place.

Well goodnight everyone and thank you for listening to me ramble

PacificDogwood · 01/12/2013 23:26

Could you say "Well, they work, so that's good enough for now" - kind of evading the question?
Or say "The only magic is the one we make ourselves" (which I happen to believe is true Smile)?

Nightmares are horrible and very frightening and v real at the time.
Although I prefer them to night terrors - I wish there was a spell for them!

Sleep tight.

TheDoctrineOfSanta · 01/12/2013 23:52

Would you be happier talking about spirituality than spells?

TheDoctrineOfSanta · 01/12/2013 23:54

So... "They are words that tap into our spirits/selves/souls and that makes them magical because they can calm us and make our lives better" kind of thing?

LRDtheFeministDragon · 01/12/2013 23:57

Is it possible to sidestep by saying 'they work, don't they?' and letting her conclude that if they work, they must be 'real' whatever you call them?

(And btw thanks for the welcome in, pacific.)