The Feminist Pub (continued).

[UptoapointLordCopper]

Been busy. Came back today to have a look but the Pub thread was full! Shall we continue here?

Third episode of Borgen on tonight.

[kickassangel]

I find though that I really hate having a messy house and I do want it clean & tidy. I grew up in a house that wasn't tidy, and I find it really depressing to sit in a room with a mess. And cos I'm the one who notices more, then I'm the one who ends up doing it.

DH was pretty good when I had my appendix out. But now we're in that recovery time and he just isn't doing enough. There's a ton of stuff I cant do, and I have to point out to him that it needs to be done. Still, I am refusing to do it, even if I could manage it painfully, so it si just sitting there.

e.g. he did all the laundry, I only had to ask once, but it is in the laundry room in a basket. There is no way I can pick it up. What does he think is going to happen to it?

[TheDoctrineOfWho]

Mummy, I think for some men, it's a default that a woman's POV is of lesser value. Just as a child might say something smart, you're not expecting it so you don't notice it. This is all part of "othering"

This is the POV that enables some men to say, "I'm not sexist, I think XX is as good as any man, if not better." - yes, you are sexist because you are starting from the default of men as standard, women as "other" who have to be exceptional, in your eyes, even to register.

[TheDoctrineOfWho]

DH gets far more depressed by mess than me, kickassangel. I know it's not great for him because he's made tense by a level of disorder I haven't even noticed.

[BelleCurve]

[http://nymag.com/thecut/2013/11/feminism-according-to-stock-photography.html]

I thought this was amusing

[TheSmallClanger]

DH's mess tolerance is much lower than mine. Just before we moved in together, I reminded him what my own place looked like, and warned him that I wasn't going to turn into a domestic goddess, ever. He was a bit put-out, as I don't think he quite understood why we were having the discussion. He does understand now.

Mess doesn't depress me. I might find it irritating from time to time, but I would rather live with a degree of untidiness than sacrifice my non-working, non-DD-wrangling time doing stupid, faffy cleaning tasks. I'm not talking about basic required stuff like washing up after meals or hoovering up after the dogs. It's polishing sinks and doing endless little loads of laundry and dusting shelves (shelves get attacked with the hoover occasionally).

[UptoapointLordCopper]

I like things to have their place. They don't have to live there all the time, but they must have a home address. So we have Lego boxes and boxes for trains and cars and soft toys. But they are allowed to travel and go abroad. Once a week they go home, aided by DC.

[TerrariaMum]

Can we rant about trivial media things in this pub?

I am v. cross about a development in Holby City which mostly I love. They seemed to be setting up to have Serena Campbell (a character with an MBA from Harvard and an excellent surgeon for those who don't watch) become the new CEO of Holby which would have been awesome. This week a neurosurgeon man waltzes in and announces that HE is the new CEO. Because not even in a fictional show could we have a woman at the head. Some would argue that he has to be the CEO because how else to introduce this new character? Erm, he's a neurosurgeon. Use that.

Sorry for hijacking, but this is the only place I think people would understand why I am grumbly.

[PacificDogwood]

I found you, I found you

Back laters x

[kickassangel]

Media stuff is not trivial. Rant away.

[PacificDogwood]

Gosh, I feel a bit very stupid because I just kinda thought the old thread had died and didn't notice that it was full .
Do you have to be intelligent to be a feminist because if so, I'm clearly not one...

I had to stop watching Holby City some time ago because of the stupid clichés banded about, the horrible acting and the weird story lines, and yes, quite a lot of gender stereotyping. I am not at all surprised at the CEO thing, sadly.

I have been on my own since Monday morning and it has been lovely . DH away on a conference (or so he tells me, he seems to be having FAR to nice a time...) in the Big Smoke, so DSs and I can just please ourselves. You'd think that having a pair of hands less would make getting up and ready for school x3 + nursery x1 + work x1 would be harder, equally bedtime, but, amazingly, NO. Much calmer, less noise, less fighting (not none, just less), it's all working swimmingly. I cannot even put my finger on what exactly is different.
I am sure it's just a honeymoon period/novelty that would soon wear off, I am certainly not looking to be a single parent in the longterm. But it was an interesting experience.... He's back tomorrow night, so normal madness will resume again .
I wonder whether it was calmer just because I had not choice but to be much more organised than usual, I knew what had been done and what hadn't (DH is not good with the old verbal exchange, plays his cards close to his chest) and everything just got done MY way rather than having any kind of debate or even conversation about it.

No alcohol here though - I never drink on my own, just does not feel right .

kissass, glad you've feeling better

[kickassangel]

I find when dh is away that I do have more to do but it runs smoother. I get to be a benign dictator rather than trying to consult with somone. But there are definitely long term bigger things that having two adults would be easier, and I wonder how I would cope with those by myself. Having my appendix out without a dp to look after dd would have been a nightmare .

[TheDoctrineOfWho]

My industry is male dominated and I seem to have recently started a role that will become even more male dominated.

Grr! Aargh!

[PacificDogwood]

You go, girl - you'll whip them into shape

[TheDoctrineOfWho]

On the upside, DH just brought me booze and ice cream in the bath!

[CaptChaos]

Rant!

I have been doing a new job for the last 3 months in a male dominated role in a department which has been failing for the last year at least. I was brought in because I have a reputation for taking no nonsense from people and being able to see what problems are and finding solutions. I was really enthusiastic about the role, it was a promotion and I was told I would be backed up all the way, as this department is pretty crucial to the company cynical laugh

Ever since I started, I have been undermined in small ways by other managers. My decisions have been questioned at every turn and promised upskilling hasn't happened. I also failed to bring my fairy wand in to work to sort it all out within a moment. Today, I finally had a meeting with my regional manager who asked me how I felt about how things were going. Once I'd finished telling him, he spent about 2 hours mansplaining away about why I shouldn't feel like that.

While it was gratifying to hear that we're making progress, I really didn't need him to tell me that I am wrong to feel the way I feel. ARGH!

[TheDoctrineOfWho]

[AnnieLobeseder]

I've just popped in after a good rant on that survey linked to on the home page about why women aren't better represented at "The Top".

I didn't do the survey, but the comments, in typical MN no-holds-barred style have given me the flavour of it.

I have loudly pointed out that there's not much really that needs changing for women except men's attitudes towards family responsibility combined with a career.

Anyone else seen it?

[TheDoctrineOfWho]

It doesn't open properly for me!

[AnnieLobeseder]

Do you mean the survey or my link, Doctrine?

[scallopsrgreat]

Oh I saw that survey earlier this week. Unfortunately I am too old (not by much) to answer it. Although from the remarks I'm not sure I want to be adding to the inevitable women-blaming when it is so much more than that. I thought MrsBach's post was very good.

[scallopsrgreat]

Not MrsBach, MyBachisworsethanmybite (great name)!

[UptoapointLordCopper]

CaptChaos I have been told recently "I don't think you should feel that you have made the wrong decision", "I don't know where you got that from", "I don't see why you should feel you do not have the support" etc. I wrote a long email about not dismissing my judgement and detailing the "unsupport" I got ... I own the project and I own my own mistakes and I will not be dismissed or patronised. Makes me angry just thinking about it.

Next thing I'm going to list the "support" I expect, in black and white and in triplicate.

[PacificDogwood]

I am in two minds about the 'being told how you feel' thing: I've recently had to make a fast call, made it, and it was not the right one (nothing bad, called a 999 ambulance when none was needed, but it will have cost the NHS £££ when with the benefit of hindsight it was not needed).
I felt stooooopid although I did not have all the relevant information when I made my call.
So, it was quite nice to hear colleagues (male and female) being supportive and saying 'You could not have known, don't feel bad'.

I think the 'I don't know why you feel you don't have the support' is quite underhand and nasty, isn't it? 'We are all supporting you, you are just not able to feel it'. Yeah, right

Putting it in writing is probably a good idea, LordCopper.

DH is back after his jolly away and life is again more complicated - he was helping tidy leaves out of our garden this afternoon (we all were) but he does it with a noisy leaf-blower/sucker which takes all the Zen enjoyment out of gardening for me. I am more a rake and bucket kinda girl.
OTOH, he is doing bath/bedtime, so I am MN and having

[kickassangel]

I am at an aquarium and was just looking at sea horses. Them am next to me was taking care if 2 kids, and doing the thing of speaking ou loud to keep them engaged. Then he said about sea horse makes having the babies and added, "that needs to be sorted out"!

[youretoastmildred]

Hi all

kickass, that sounds scary. I wonder what he has planned?!

That reminds me... when I was in my 20s and didn't have any children I found myself explaining to a 5 year old girl at a party that snails were hermaphodites. (We were outside, and looking at one) She pointed at it, and said in wonder, "so... she.... is a boy AND a girl?" I was thrilled that she said "she" as the default.