The Feminist Pub (continued).

[UptoapointLordCopper]

Been busy. Came back today to have a look but the Pub thread was full! Shall we continue here?

Third episode of Borgen on tonight.

We remove red eye. And DH did once remove a snot trail from an otherwise lovely photo of DD2 we wanted to put in a frame. I think we're within normal Pacific

Penguin, in fairness to my sister and others, she did only have a livid red mark removed from her toddlers face (banged his cheek the day before) for the school photo I feel like I threw her under the bus a bit now!

Well done PD.

I used to read Judith Krantz novels as my escapism (now I read fan fiction) and in one of her books she says something like "Supermodels are freaks. Maybe 10 women in the world are supermodels at any one time. There's no way the rest of us can match them." And that was long before even supermodels were photoshoped to the point that they can barely recognize themselves!

Yeah Monica, I can understand that. But she photoshops herself routinely? That says something sad about what we see as the purpose of posting photos of ourselves doesn't it? That it isn't just about letting loved ones see what we've been up to, but 'presenting' ourselves to the world in the same way that models or actors are 'presented' in their photos.

I think it kind of removes the reason for sharing them on FB if you're taking the time to PS them first!

I take a picture and instantly upload it. I would never upload anything if I thought I had to PS it first.

She's more of a blemish remover to be fair, but she has shown me 'how to pose' for a photo - chin down, arm at unnatural angle etc because I could never understand how she always looked so good in photos.

It is sad though - most public forum 'joe public' photos are posed or manipulated in some way, it's all about how others perceive you with so much less importance on how you perceive yourself.

Everyone is aware of media manipulation, but it goes on all around us all the time and we don't notice most of it.

Ok.
DS3(5) noticed tonight that Stickman is taller than his Stick Lady Love.
I just said "Yes, he is."

Julia Donaldson strikes me as quite enlightened (and her DH Malcolm too) and I have no idea what Axel Scheffler, the illustrator, is like.
Does Stickman's height matter?
I don't even know why I am still thinking about it.

It's the old chestnut of men being physically 'superior' to women, stronger, faster, taller. Yes, a lot of men are stronger or faster or taller than a lot of women, but not all. A lot of men are taller than other men, a lot of women are taller than other women and some women are taller than some men.

Sigh. I am overthinking this, aren't I?
Fecking Stickman

This "man taller than woman" business is part of our "gender schema", according to my book. Statistically speaking men are taller than women. However, when they did an experiment showing pictures of men and women of the same height (separately), people consistently think that the men are taller than the women. This shows that even "true" stereotype influences our judgement.

Is that sufficiently dull?

AntiJam I would like to play in an orchestra. Unfortunately I don't play an orchestral instrument ... It must be fun.

Oh, oh, I've started a thread in 'music' and then in 'Chat' about [http://www.upworthy.com/watch-the-first-54-seconds-that-s-all-i-ask-you-ll-be-hooked-after-that-i-swear?c=reccon1 this]] and am getting v little traffic - if this does not get you taking up an instrument, then I don't know what will, LordCopper .

Again, not feminist, but fecking inspiring!

And no, that was not dull, v interesting, thanks

2nd attempt

The bigger the gap between height of man an woman in a Holkywood movie, the better it does at the box office. So the fact if men being averagely taller than women becomes something we judge people on.

On another note, according to my mother I am not meant to read in Christmas Day. I should cook and play with dd. I pointed out that it is dh's turn and I get the day off.

Upto I love playing in my orchestra but I hate the fact that they all want to do concerts. I get embarrassed about stuff like that, especially since the music we play is the exact same stuff that dd1 plays in her school orchestra. I feel like we should be better as adults than the teenagers, but then I remember that the teenagers are still having lessons and I barely picked up my flute in the 15 years between leaving school and joining this orchestra last year.
The other flautist started playing in her 40s, had lessons and took exams as an adult once her kids were older teenagers. She got grade 8 at 60! It's not too late for you to start playing an instrument if you want to. I have a colleague who always wanted to play the violin and he was given a violin and some lessons for his 50th birthday. He isn't particularly good but he really enjoys it, has joined a folk group and an orchestra and is improving all the time.

Pacific dd2 noticed that stickman is taller than his lady love too. I think that's acceptable because an 'average-height' man is taller than an 'average-height' woman.

It is interesting about Hollywood movies and height differences between men and women though. I know my friend feels very self-conscious because she's 3 inches taller than her husband, and my sister never wore heels when she was with her ex because they are exactly the same height. Tall women and short men both seem to have quite a hard time of it.

To be fair, if you are trying to make a stick look different, there's only so much you can do...

I'll give you that point, TheDoctrine, not much in the way of secondary sexual characteristics to play with

I think the height difference has a better statistical basis than the fucking eyelash difference which seems to be de rigeur for indicating "female".

The DDs talk about men being taller than women the whole time. You'd think they'd get fed up of me saying 'who is taller:DH (5'5") or A (my female cousin, 6')?' They roll their eyes and say 'A'.

DH is secure in his shortness due to being quite tall in his family and taller than me. Fathering 3 DC in quick succession has earned him the odd high five, although personally I think my 40 something ovaries should be pretty impressed with themselves as well. And why is it that men get congratulated on being manly for having children? No-one congratulates me on my fecundity, generally I've been told I'm crazy to have 'so many'.

Antijam I had a few violin lessons when I was younger, and dabbled in the guitar, but my main instrument is the piano, which you don't get to play in an orchestra unless someone particularly want a concerto ... And I'd be terrible at that - the thing about playing solo all your life is that you don't keep time particularly well. But I've started playing the piano again after a break of about, oh, 20 years. It's great. I thought I'd go back to old pieces to relearn them, but actually I've learned all kinds of new stuff. I've got my eye on either a violin or a cello, though. I'll torture my neighbours for a bit and then join an orchestra and torture the general public.

As for being better as adults than school kids, I'm not sure about that! I certainly don't play to the same standard as I did when I did exams... Kids don't have anything else to do if they want to spend all day practising, whereas adults somehow got coerced into providing them meals.

Not s very feminist post.

legomum Yeah, it's odd that men should get congratulated for that micro-second of effort while women don't get recognition for those months and months of gestation.

When I was young and foolish I had a job where I was taller than my boss and made a point of wearing 3-inch heels. Hate heels.

It's because society is predicated on the ownership of children and the succession, and men cannot gestate, therefore when the woman they "own" is pregnant they are proved to have a rightful place.

Oh the eyelash thing

DD1 was obsessed with eyelashes being a girl only thing until we inspected daddy's eyes to discover he has them too. Silly cartoon makers don't realise boys need to keep the dust out of their eyes too.

When DS1 was a baby a woman walked up to us and admired him and then said that those eyelashes were wasted on a boy.

He does have lovely eye lashes.

Ha - someone said the same about my nephew.

I suppose it's not wrong, DNephew or your DS won't be expected to flutter them much