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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Can I ask you for some links about porn please?

479 replies

EhricLovesTeamQhuay · 20/10/2013 10:29

Specifically accounts of ex porn actors talking about abuse/coercion in porn films, and anything academic about the effects of porn on male sexuality and sexual attitudes?

I've read bits, but I'm already convinced. This is for a friend whose new boyfriend doesn't get it and she feels like she doesn't have the evidence to show him.
Thanks

OP posts:
LurcioLovesFrankie · 20/10/2013 10:43

Pornland, by Gail Dines. I'm just starting to read it - v depressing and disturbing, but brilliantly put together.

SabrinaMulhollandJjones · 20/10/2013 12:07

Felicity's story with Max Hardcore is quite erm, disturbing. He practically raped her, and tried to coerce her into doing things she wasn't happy with. With a camera rolling in the room. The documentary crew ended up intervening and removing her.

I'm not linking to it on here - it's way too triggering. But it's on YouTube if you search for the names above.

curlew · 20/10/2013 12:11

If the boyfriend is an adult and doesn't get it without being shown links then he should be dumped instantly.

DavesDadsDogDiedDiabolically · 20/10/2013 12:52

Nice, reasoned reaction as always curlew.

DavesDadsDogDiedDiabolically · 20/10/2013 13:01

Why would you miss the chance to educate someone & change their views?

Original poster
EhricLovesTeamQhuay · 20/10/2013 13:13

Thanks.
I agree curlew but it's not my boyfriend! I'm trying to support my friend who is uncomfortable about porn but doesn't know why. Sending her some things to read will help her in general by facilitating her to articulate her feelings and if it empowers her to think twice about the bf then that's a bonus.

OP posts:
AngryFrank · 20/10/2013 13:23

There is no reliable or unbiased evidence/ research on the effects of porn on male sexuality. However given that around 90% of all men use it, then i would think it was safe to assume that the effects are minimal. Unless you think the whole of society is messed up. Hmm

There are also loads of porn stars who have spoke positively about their careers in porn since retiring. Gail Dines just cherry picks a few bad cases and tries to pass them off as the norm. Porn is such a diverse spectrum it would be unfair to try and tar it all with the same brush.

curlew · 20/10/2013 13:34

"Why would you miss the chance to educate someone & change their views?"

Because I don't think this is a subject on which people can be educated. If you can't see that pornography objectifies and degrades women and men just by looking at some, and that the chances are that the women involved are being exploited to a greater or lesser degree because of your knowledge of how the world works, then I don't think anything I say is going to make a difference.

curlew · 20/10/2013 13:35

"However given that around 90% of all men use it"

Reference, please.

DavesDadsDogDiedDiabolically · 20/10/2013 13:50

But based on your view curlew feminism may as well just pack it's bags & go - surely the whole fight is to educate people to look at things in a different way to the accepted norm.....

curlew · 20/10/2013 13:53

No. There are areas where education can work, and areas where it can't. If you have a brain, then you don't need education to know that porn is exploitative and degrading.

DavesDadsDogDiedDiabolically · 20/10/2013 15:40

I beg to differ as people obviously do!!

And most of them have brains!

grimbletart · 20/10/2013 16:21

And most of them have brains!

Trouble is, when using porn they don't engage them.....

No one (unless they are seriously weird) wants to think that a hobby they have could be supporting exploitation and degradation, so the thinking part switches off: it's self protection. If you don't engage the brain enough to even entertain the idea that porn might just be exploitive or degrading then you are free to continue your hobby.

Original poster
EhricLovesTeamQhuay · 20/10/2013 16:32

Thanks all
I googled the max hardcore doc. Utterly traumatic.
I don't agree curlew that people should just 'know' that porn is degrading and if they don't they are hopeless. This guy for eg is young and IMO damaged by early sexual activity and porn exposure. He has been conditioned to believe that porn is an accurate representation of adult sexuality and he believes that women actors enjoy many of the acts depicted. This is the message that porn gives. His mind is as yet unformed on many issues due to his age and I choose to believe that he can have his mind opened at some point.

OP posts:
DavesDadsDogDiedDiabolically · 20/10/2013 18:05

His mind is as yet unformed on many issues due to his age and I choose to believe that he can have his mind opened at some point.

This. You can't just write people off because you think they should know better....

AngryFrank · 20/10/2013 21:46

"However given that around 90% of all men use it"

Reference, please.

It seems most surveys would indicate the majority of men use porn of some kind, even the anti porn lobby studies acknowledge this. Then you have to consider the amount of internet traffic which is porn related (a hell of a lot of people must be watching it!)

Grennie · 20/10/2013 21:47

“Sex is a way to get girls to do more stuff weirdly. If they do something and you threaten to tell everyone, they do more stuff.”

“I hated giving blow jobs, but didn’t want to look weird. And he said I was a freak if I didn’t. He was my best mate, but sex turned him into someone else.”

www.tes.co.uk/article.aspx?storycode=6294001

www.abc.net.au/religion/articles/2011/09/14/3317662.htm

BasilBabyEater · 20/10/2013 21:49

"Why would you miss the chance to educate someone & change their views?"

Because I want to respect, love and have fun with a partner. I can't respect someone I need to educate about porn when he's an adult - he's responsible for his own education and if he hasn't managed it yet, I'll pass thanks. I've got more important things to focus my energies on.

As you asked. That's one reason why many women would "miss their chance".

Grennie · 20/10/2013 21:54

Yes it would be a deal breaker for me too.

Original poster
EhricLovesTeamQhuay · 20/10/2013 21:57

Thanks grennie
And remember, this isn't my boyfriend. If it was, he'd be dumped. This is a good friend of mine who isn't very political but who wants to clarify her views. I'm hoping to help her to become better informed (because she asked me, I'm not being a pompous twat) and this may empower her to think twice about him.

OP posts:
Grennie · 20/10/2013 22:00

Yes it is always useful to tell women the truth about pornography. Although I would still be against it, many women who do not watch porn themselves have no idea how violent the majority of porn is now. And many don't understand the impact it is having on teenagers.

DadWasHere · 20/10/2013 22:49

These are two separate issues, attitude to porn and attitude to exploitation. Its disingenuous to conflict the two as being the same thing.

I would like to do away with the exploitive, scripted and joyless sex (I assume the vast bulk is) of the commercial porn industry. Even if I totally ignored the exploitation of women and were utterly male-selfish I would still see it done away with if only for the sake of boys and young men who, in consuming it, are tricked into thinking women commonly enjoy certain sexual practices while others are non-existent.

But even if commercial porn were done away with you are left with amateur porn.

Grennie · 20/10/2013 22:52

All porn is exploitative. We are not being disingenous aka lying at all.

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