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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Can I ask you for some links about porn please?

479 replies

EhricLovesTeamQhuay · 20/10/2013 10:29

Specifically accounts of ex porn actors talking about abuse/coercion in porn films, and anything academic about the effects of porn on male sexuality and sexual attitudes?

I've read bits, but I'm already convinced. This is for a friend whose new boyfriend doesn't get it and she feels like she doesn't have the evidence to show him.
Thanks

OP posts:
EhricLovesTeamQhuay · 23/10/2013 08:13

Bloody hell. Thanks everyone, that was useful Hmm

Pearl necklace is completely different to pearl clutching by the way.

OP posts:
EhricLovesTeamQhuay · 23/10/2013 08:17

I don't know youvegotbale. Maybe he's a MRA goader well known to you lot. But on this thread, all he did was point out that asserting that porn users are more likely to get stis was false, and that stigmatising sexual health checks is not a good thing. Both true points. Then he was actually leapt on for using his privilege and telling us how to do feminism. Seriously?

OP posts:
DixonBainbridge · 23/10/2013 09:05

Ah right, got "clutching" mixed up with "necklaces" - apologies, won't make that mistake again!! Blush

SabrinaMulhollandJjones · 23/10/2013 10:33

MRA goader, Ehric. Smile

EarthMither · 23/10/2013 10:48

Ehric, yougotmale is a tedious MRA dimwit. Sabrina (and others) should be considered for sainthood in their efforts to treat him with patience. Personally I CBA

Yougotbale · 23/10/2013 10:59

Earth - I'm not an MRA. If you are going to lie that's up to you, don't know what you are but I can factually say you are a liar.

I don't agree with some generalisations and what I consider to be untruths. If you want to police the forum, then fine, but don't lie about it. It's pathetic

curlew · 23/10/2013 11:01

Care to comment on the "pearl necklace" remark?

Yougotbale · 23/10/2013 11:08

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

curlew · 23/10/2013 11:11

Yeah, right. So in the on text of a thread about porn, a subject on which you feel yourself knowledgable enough to discuss, you think it's appropriate to talk about sending a woman a "big pearl necklace"

I suspected you would take the wide eyed disingenuous line. Sadly, I was proved right.

SinisterSal · 23/10/2013 11:19

Yougotsocks is not keeping up with all these balls he is trying to juggle Grin

SolidGoldBrass · 23/10/2013 11:25

There is, actually, a long tradition of anti-censorship feminism. In the 30 years or so since the whole Porn Wars thing began, there have been feminist groups and individual feminists both in the UK and the US disagreeing with the pro-censorship view of porn and pointing out the risks to women and feminism of seeking out 'allies' on the strength of their opposition to porn/the sex industry. Condemnation of porn is a feminist position not the feminist position.

Yougotbale · 23/10/2013 11:27

Curlew - I googled it. I know the context now. I'll use the phrase in future.

Sinister - what are you on about? Footballs? Rugby balls? Did you see Gareth socks got 17 mins at the weekend. Hope it works out for socks

SinisterSal · 23/10/2013 11:30

But it is harmful to women. Maybe not innately. But certainly in the world we have now it is largely harmful to women. I don't think that is up for debate. How can defending that be a feminist position, when there is so much 'collateral damage' (at best)?
I genuinely don't understand the feminist pro porn position. Can you explain SGB, if you have time

AngryFrank · 23/10/2013 13:03

But it is harmful to women. Maybe not innately. But certainly in the world we have now it is largely harmful to women. I don't think that is up for debate.

It certainly is up for debate! especially when so far all the anti porn lobby have done is cherry picked a few bad cases of extreme porn (Max Harcore), bigged up the Marry Whitehouse wannabe (Gail Dines) and when that failed, made up this absolute crap about porn users being more likely to have STI's. If that's not scrapping the barrel then what is?

I am really surprised that so far only the OP has actually condemned this STI nonsense Shock

oh and here summarizes the feminist pro porn position:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex-positive_feminism

curlew · 23/10/2013 13:10

Men are particularly keen on sex-positive feminism. I wonder why...........?

curlew · 23/10/2013 13:22

Oh, and I didn't actually understand the STI point.

However. If we have a society where pornography is accepted, we have a society where young men and women are internalizing the view that women are huge boobed, hairless and sexually available at all times, and where men are uncontrollably tumescent and not to be denied. Which I don't think is good for anyone.

SinisterSal · 23/10/2013 13:43

Frank. Did you notice the point I made about collateral damage. No?

SinisterSal · 23/10/2013 13:44

Mystery, innit curlew.

How interested are they in equal pay, or sharing of domestic reponsibilities?

SolidGoldBrass · 23/10/2013 13:50

SinisterSal: Well I'll have a go at explaining the anti-censorship feminist position.

Predominantly it's recognising that censorship is bad, and it's particularly bad for women. The history of 'stopping porn' always turns out, very quickly indeed, to mean 'stopping transgressive/LGBT/feminist stuff first'. Information on women's sexual health, contraception and abortion is always targeted very quickly, while the more mainstream porn is often left alone. Pushing a 'banning' agenda leads to putting more power in the hands of the government, which is not going to use it to further a feminist agenda.

Secondly, it involves recognising that a lot of people want to look at, hear, create and perform in sexually-explicit entertainment media and that this isn't wrong. There are a lot of women who want to make sexually explicit media, want to talk about sex, have fun, explore it, play around with concepts of what is and is not sexy. Sure, not all women do, but nor do all women find sex-asentertainment uninteresting or 'degrading'.

Did you see the thread on here the other day about the shock-horror in the papers that Mumsnetters talk about sex? Someone made the very good point that, for some users of this site, discussing what happens in their sexual relationships and being able to talk openly and anonymously about it can lead to them getting help to recognise that their partners are abusive, and being supported in escaping the abusers.

The biggest problem with porn as it is these days is the unsafe, exploitative conditions in which some performers have to work. Unsafe, exploitative working conditions are a big problem across the board (catering, clothing, electronic gadgetry - lots of industries abuse workers, risk their lives, underpay them, terrorize them etc) - activism for better workers' rights is the answer, not prohibition.

SolidGoldBrass · 23/10/2013 13:51

Anti-censorship feminists are very interested in equal pay, pro-choice, sharing domestic work etc. Why wouldn't we be?

curlew · 23/10/2013 14:00

SGB, we were cynically speculating about the reasons men might be particularly interested on sex positive feminism. Maybe it is for the discussions about equal pay? Who knows.........

curlew · 23/10/2013 14:01

SGB- please forgive me if I'm wrong- but do you have a financial interest in porn/erotica/something like that?

SolidGoldBrass · 23/10/2013 14:10

Curlew: I write erotic fiction/non-fiction about sex and have been involved in and around the porn/erotica/sex industry for 20 years. I've also been a member of Feminists Against Censorship for about the same length of time.

grimbletart · 23/10/2013 14:29

So you have a financial interest (as well as personal) in the topic SGB? I did want to ask if you had a vested interest but thought it would be too personal a question. Thanks for the information.

Grennie · 23/10/2013 14:41

Iceland's approcah to banning violent porn does not seem to have prevented them publishing LGB or feminist/sexual health information.

Of course a censorship agenda can always be used by a Government in a negative way, like any tool. But it is not automatically the case that it is.