WHY do so many (it seems) men hate and fear women?

[Hullygully]

I was thinking about this the other day. Women earn less, get killed more, are objectified blah blah we all know the stats. They are real stats, the facts are that women have it worse. So why do men fear and hate them so much that they can't bear it pointed out? The "ball-breaking" language of the 70s continues in a different form. BUT WHY?

Because we have babies. (As in we are the biological sex which carries and births subsequent generations.)

Honestly, I think it is no more complicated than that (although it transfers into complex systems of social control and the socialization of both sexes). With an historical (and therefore cultural) basis to the above. And so on...

Depressing subject if you ask me.

The origins of misogyny have been analysed extensively, and they are almost certainly rooted in biology; then power and control.

There's also the tendency for people to blame victims for their circumstances in order to alleviate guilt and restore a sense that the world is just. This was shown in a study in Cordelia Fine's book, A Mind Of Its Own. Essentially, the worst someone had it, the more they were blamed. (Will try to find study.)

This mentality is what makes it easier for politicians to make some of us despise the poor and disabled.

So I think when men treat women badly because of how they're taught by the wider culture, they then project their feelings of shame onto the women and blame them in order to make it easier to live with themselves.

Combined with the already entrenched misogyny, it seems difficult to see really effective ways of dealing with this.

It's for the same reason that there is so much anti-immigrant feeling: people fear that redressing power balances so that one group is not privileged over the other will cause the group with the privileged group to lose out. No-one likes to give up their privilege. This is why most of us continue to buy goods produced by exploitative labour, to invest our money in banks that invest in arms trades etc. We know it is wrong, but we won't actually use the power we have to do anything about it. We are quick to hate those who do not have our privileges who try to make those changes to their individual circumstances themselves.

there was a great thread on here a few years ago The roots of misogyny
will settle down to read it again now

Maybe it should be looked at the other way round: the men that don't hate women, how do they manage that? If we could figure that out, perhaps we could work out the reasons for those that do.

Most of the men I know don't appear to hate women. They're mostly PhD scientists - so I guess confident of their own abilities, inclined to judge other people on their abilities? (Of course it could be they're sexists shits when I'm not around but I don't think so).

The names on that thread take one back...

In my limited experience, I find that many of the men whose actions demonstrate hatred of women also behave terribly towards other groups too - which leads me to conclude that some, at least, have minds inclined towards hating others, and the crap aimed at women is a simple consequence of that.

I also think that there are (extremely) limited circumstances in which men do fare less well than women, and some men who have fallen foul of, say, a poor court decision regarding access to their children project their experiences on the rest of their lives.

It's the legs and the creepy movement and the way they're suddenly there when you least expect it. I wack them with a rolled up newspaper if I see one.

Actually, that's spiders isn't it.

thought that too Hully...

I don't think you'll ever find a man who will own up and say "me...I fear and loathe women". None of the men who really do fear and loathe women think they do. They think they're ok, and that there's nothing wrong with their attitude or expectations.

A lot of right old cunts will happily tell anyone who cares to listen, that they love women, and have nothing but respect for them. What's more...they actually believe it too!

In response to your last question Hully, I think the problem is that boys and girls don't mix when they're young. In school boys stick with boys and girls with girls. Mostly.
I remember working with a young woman in a nursery once. It seemed that she had never had to interact with a man before, except for the reason of 'getting off' with them. She had all female friends, worked with all women, grew up with all female friends. I turned up and she couldn't cope. She was unable to talk to me in any kind of normal way.
Same with many of the boys at school. They played with boys, sat next to boys etc. Girls really were seen as virtually a whole different species. I once read the title of a book called "Men are from Mars, women are from Venus" and that makes sense at school and some one sexed workplaces.
So that's my solution. More should be done at schools to get children to mix and see each other as people first.

And we could stop all the sexist gendered nonsense with which they are bombarded too

I think lower status men hate women because there has to be someone lower than them (as eldritch said).

I think higher status men look to justify their cushy lot. By pointing out that society is biased in their favour you are basically belittling their achievement and saying it is because life isn't fair. It's better to think that either the world is easier for women than men or that women are not worthy / entitled to equality.

But why don't women hate men if those are the criteria?

Try searching for the phrase "All men are bastards". 11,200,000 results. The number one result? A mumsnet thread!

It's a phrase I often hear at work. (Childcare).

See whatdoesittake's post yesterday at 1547. Some women hate some men, just as some men hate some women. And if you want to dredge the internet, there are sites where some women openly hate men and will say so. It's just that they are extreme in their views, and can't be used as an example of the majority view.

As ridiculous and unrepresentative as they are, to pretend that they don't exist is disingenuous, though.

this is an excellent article

Some people hate the other sex. Some drivers are idiots. Some cyclists...etc...

Most people are lovely.

That is indeed excellent, Sal. Makes sense.

I don't think you'll ever find a man who will own up and say "me...I fear and loathe women". None of the men who really do fear and loathe women think they do.

This, I think most of it is so subconscious and ingrained that drawing out the reasons would be incredibly difficult and probably not that revealing.

Having said that, I don't loathe women, but I do have a fear of the power they (you) wield particularly after learning about feminism. From some of the literature, there is a massive undercurrent that's been running for many millenia and the whole "women give life" power imbalance is quite scary for a man. Unsurprisingly really, if you have a significant population being oppressed by another, and the victimised population holds more (ultimate) power than the oppressing population that resentment is going to break sometime and the oppressors will be in a whole world of sh*t when it does.

the oppressors will be in a whole world of sh*t when it does.

no - because women are in general not so confrontational, and more conciliatory. Most feminists I come across don't want domination, they want proper equality. Nothing to fear in that is there?

It's not so hopeless Hully - none of that's inevitable, it's all cultural rather than innate. All we need now is the will to change society. Simples.

Keepithidden there is a lot of negative projection coming across in your posts. It's all very battle of the sexes. Woman are not looking to oppress men, whether they are feminists or not, or revenge themselves on men and it is a favourite tool of patriarchy to suggest that they are.

We're actually just trying to get out from under, or have specific reasonable requests like 'Stop raping us, it's horrible and wrong.'