Understanding how 'positive' attention is still unwelcomed.

[msrisotto]

This has been on my mind recently because I have realised that I don't trust men I don't know. I've been brought up not to (Stranger Danger! Mum always said if you get lost, approach a woman not a man etc) and my experiences with strange (as in strangers) men have been unpredictable....it was hard to explain which is why I didn't post until now, when I saw this post on Jezebel which actually explains it well.
jezebel.com/5953909/look-guys-even-nice-can-be-annoying

Now, as usual for these kind of posts, I have to qualify what i'm about to say with - i'm not boasting or saying i'm ever so attractive [Samantha Brick].
So recently I gave some directions to a bloke in a car, when I was finished, he said "You look fantastic by the way", I put my head down and walked off. The other day in Wenzels, 2 builder blokes stared at me and one said Hi, I ignored it, looked the other way and left with my purchase. I was wondering about why and came to the conclusion that I must just be shy or weird but I think the article explains it much better than I can. I'm not shy. When I was single, I welcomed attention in bars and nightclubs as they were appropriate situations to be meeting new people in a meat market kind of a way! Plus I was with my friends. But when i'm just trying to get on with my life, it's not worth engaging.

I dunno, this is a kind of outpouring of poorly formed thoughts that have been swirling round in my head over the last few weeks. If anyone has any thoughts, please come and talk to me about it!

Here's what I find, now I'm approaching fifty: I'm still slim and wear clothes that flatter my figure - not in a TOWIE way, I hasten to add.
I've found myself surrounded, as I looked in a shop window on a busy shopping street in a 'respectable' small town, by a group of four or five blokes, one of whom, as he got closer to me, broadcast 'ugly!' to his mates, who all chortled as I walked away, pretending I hadn't heard.

The place where I volunteer is mostly populated by people older than myself, and when certain people are there I feel as if I've been transported back to my twenties: blokes staring every time you walk across the room; feeling like you're on display all the time.

I'd much rather be ignored, frankly.

I agree, sometimes a friendly 'hello' when you pass someone is just an innocent greeting, and it could be a way of telling you they think you're attractive. It's the staring and forcing themselves in your face to make you acknowledge them that veers into creepy, aggressive territory.

That's not acceptable either though OneMoreChap she had no right to do that to you, anymore than has a man to do it to a woman.

Oops x-post!

Now I'm older I sometimes wonder if I would be less anti comments like "Smile luv" if I hadn't had numerous occasions when my refusal to engage had lead to really fould behaviour towards me. I know men sometimes get told to smile or that they are good looking. But if they're in a mood, or distracted or just don't want to - do they get abused? Do they get told they are a bitch, frigid, an ugly fucker, just need a good steam rollering? Do they get threatened with rape or have a group follow them half way down the street cat calling and being generally foul? Because all that has happened to me before I'd left school. All because I didn't smile or laugh at some random bloke I'd never met before.

I might have a different perspective on how reasonable such behaviour from men is if it wasn't something where our society has conditioned me to feel it is a way in which men demand women pander to their egos. If it didn't feel like it was entirely for their benefit rather than a polite way to make everyone feel better.

Generally I find comments about how I look to be really inappropriate from a stranger, even a woman, or in a professional setting. The only exceptions being where it seems like genuine admiration for me and my taste, rather than admiration for my ability to please them IYSWIM.

"Such behaviour" in the second paragraph refers to comments like "Smile luv". Not the fould abuse.

And what's with my autocorrect changing foul to fould? Sorry.

EmmelineGoulden

I've been told to fuck off when I said, no, I wouldn't cheer up... but then I didn't feel threatened by some idiot saying it to me (I wasn't in the least concerned he'd harm me). I think probably just the once...

Nah, I agree with the general perspective on this.

One slightly older woman I knew a few years back, told me in passing "It's rude anyway, but look at the state of some of those blokes; would you believe they had good judgement on anything?"

[Is this were I now admit that after she said that I'd always glance at builders to see if I could spot if it was the older porky guys whistling]

Emmeline In a work environment with colleagues, I've said "new tie?" or "new top?" to people I knew, it can be better than saying "how are you?" if you see them in the lift etc.

I don't think I'd say it to a random stranger in the lift or in a meeting though. It wouldn't seem appropriate, or professional.

This piece about Olympic athletes is interesting, although it focusses on dismissive remarks rather than encouraging ones. But it's basically the flipside of the same coin: women being rated for their fuckability rather than what they can do. It pisses a lot of us off.

And by "us", I mean women, not Olympic athletes

Are there not articles written like that about men as well?
About what they wear?
About their abs or something?
Asking btw, I dont know the answers to what I ask.

I have often wondered about athletes,who makes them wear the clothes they wear,whether male or female.
Do they have much choice,or are they very restricted by the rules of their particular sport.

You're for the high-jump, Shirl

In the US there was a big furore about one of the 14 year old gymnast's HAIR FFS. I don't think there is a comparable example of a male gymnast being told to sort his hair out!

Boffy - I'm interested in keeping the spirit of the Olympics alive

prob not ShirleyRots

Sorry she was 16 not 14!

Have found this
deadspin.com/5929650/when-michael-phelps-was-a-15+year+old-dork-olympian-who-kept-losing-his-retainer

Namechangeguy - to respond to your long-ago post about approaching women. Approaching a stranger in a place where they're going about their own business is a risky business and not something most people would do as they understand that it's not always welcome. Generally if you're interested in meeting someone you do so at a pub, a party, a club or some other place where people specifically go to socialise. Anywhere else people are absorbed in other business and being interrupted is usually not welcome. It's pretty straightforward really.

Shirl - yu don't understand about the hair. My dd was a gymnast. The hair is like 90% of it. They have OBSESSIVE rules. It's much more important than the actual acrobatics.

Emmeline
I was horrified to read how you were treated by those foul and ignorant men before you even left school !!.. SCUMBAGS, to put it mildy. What they did to you, would have terrified me. But now I am much older than you, I think, my female friends have complimented me on what I am wearing, and I do the same to them and we are really appreciative. Even female strangers in shops, I have paid compliments to, and has been received well - all ages. But would not like it from a strange man, as that is a different matter.
When I was much younger, I could always tell by the look in their eyes whether it was a friendly or leering/expectant look.
A man stopping to ask a woman directions ( well he wouldn't ask another man ) and then saying she looked fantastic, would be obvious to me, he'd stopped hoping for a " pick up", not for directions. But his manner and eyes would have said it all, if it had been me.

digred when I write it down and look at it and am amazed I wasn't terrified by it. But it was so everyday that I guess I was just habituated to it. And before it was ever directed at me I suppose I must have heard it a hundred times directed at other women, including my mother as I walked her

Have read this whole thread with interest.

I, too, have become invisible as I've become older. In a way I regret that I don't get much attention - because as I've aged I've become intolerant to this kind of shit and will challenge it EVERY time. I feel angry with myself when I think about how much I let men get away with when I was younger - precisely because I didn't want to make a fool of myself in public or was too shy to challenge someone.

Until recently I used to cycle a 20-mile round trip to work each day. I was always dressed in a helmet, high vis jacket etc and would get, on average, one wolf whistle, rude gesture or stupid comment each day. It would make my blood boil because they would whizz past me and I wasn't able to retaliate. Talk about feeling powerless.

Incidentally, does anyone have a short, sharp, withering reply to the 'smile/cheer up love' comment?

How about "I will. Once you've fucked off". :)

Emmeline
I am relieved you were not terrified, but on the otherhand, I am shocked that you were" habituated " by this prolonged horrendous male behaviour at such a young age too.

Never heard of that, stupid " you need a good steam rollering", before, but I can imagine what they meant - hence my term " ignorant". They haven't

a clue about women, just their lust sodden wishful thinking/delusions !!!!

Fortunately not all men are like that.