Understanding how 'positive' attention is still unwelcomed.

[msrisotto]

This has been on my mind recently because I have realised that I don't trust men I don't know. I've been brought up not to (Stranger Danger! Mum always said if you get lost, approach a woman not a man etc) and my experiences with strange (as in strangers) men have been unpredictable....it was hard to explain which is why I didn't post until now, when I saw this post on Jezebel which actually explains it well.
jezebel.com/5953909/look-guys-even-nice-can-be-annoying

Now, as usual for these kind of posts, I have to qualify what i'm about to say with - i'm not boasting or saying i'm ever so attractive [Samantha Brick].
So recently I gave some directions to a bloke in a car, when I was finished, he said "You look fantastic by the way", I put my head down and walked off. The other day in Wenzels, 2 builder blokes stared at me and one said Hi, I ignored it, looked the other way and left with my purchase. I was wondering about why and came to the conclusion that I must just be shy or weird but I think the article explains it much better than I can. I'm not shy. When I was single, I welcomed attention in bars and nightclubs as they were appropriate situations to be meeting new people in a meat market kind of a way! Plus I was with my friends. But when i'm just trying to get on with my life, it's not worth engaging.

I dunno, this is a kind of outpouring of poorly formed thoughts that have been swirling round in my head over the last few weeks. If anyone has any thoughts, please come and talk to me about it!

I'm genuinely confused how anyone can read this discussion and still utterly miss the issues at play here. It's like words have lost all meaning or something .

aufaniae

But the OP isn't a 14 year old girl having comments made about her body.

WereTricksPotter

Ill child, currently asleep fyi

So what about when male colleagues say you look nice at work? Female colleagues do too. It seems a world away from having "MILF" shouted at you from a white van, but is it really?

ShirleyRots

Why soothe them then?

As a 14 year old I had lots of unwelcome comments. Sorry, what is your point again?

That's right, I remember what the point is..."shhhhhh, silly women haven't you got some work to be getting on with?"

It would be lovely to be able to shrug everything off with a happy smile and a "thanks for staring at me, I really appreciate being leered at, would you like my number or shall I reward your interest immediately and drop to my knees in supplication, lovely random stranger?"

xposted - Because if you challenge them you generally get a mouthful of abuse. Have you read the thread?

What is your suggestion then? Ignoring them I suppose - I've tried that and been called some pretty atrocious names.

NerdAmigo

On FWR on MN you would be lead to believe that men and women are different and the same all at the same time.
There are so many contradictions on this section it makes the whole issue of "Feminism' laughable imo.

I find the conversations in FF/BF uninteresting, a bit baffling and completely outside my frame of reference.

I might head over there and tell them all.

Really people think it is OK to come on here and be rude about the OP, minimise her feelings and the feelings of others and then say feminists are the one with the problem?

Yes I have read the thread and that is what I'm responding to. If you want to discuss, 'I find it objectionable that men year at teenage girls' then start a new thread.

Greenhill,
if you feel that way I'd consider asking yourself who is forcing you to feel that way? You must get leered at one hell of a lot! If you don't like it why not just tell them to F off? Why do you suppose that they would expect you do any of what you quoted? I can't help but think if we paint everyone in the same light is it any wonder they continue to behave that way?

interesting article. I once started a thread on Mumsnet about how upset I had found being shouted at in the street by workmen, even though they wren't rude I still found it uncomfortable and unwanted. On that thread a huge percentage of the responses were about how I should be flattered.

Optional Universal Signifiers.

No one not sporting one to be approached.

MoreBeta, I totally agree that actually all these things are just rude, whether you're male or female.

But, the fact that it happens soooooo much more to women makes it a gender issue.

Why do so many men feel free to impose this rudeness on women, when so few women do? It says something about society and how it's structured.

I am with BOF it has been spelled out in triplicate on this thread why this is a gendered issue and why it is an issue full stop. If you can't understand it then fair enough, but to dismiss us as "abused", "wanting it all ways", "laughable" is shoddy.

"why not just tell them to F off?" because - and I'm started to get bored of saying the same thing for the 40th time - it generally escalates. If you tell a man you're not interested and they don't fuck off, and then you TELL them to fuck off then you're already on the back foot and IME (over and over again) you end up getting a really vile mouthful of personal abuse.

Well obviously it's all about context but I hope we can all agree being called 'stuck up cunt' in the street after not being grateful at someone saying something/leering is unacceptable.

It's really clear to me that if someone says someone that on the face of it looks friendly like 'Hello gorgeous' but follows it up with insults when you don't simper back is a fucking mysognistic wanker. They weren't being nice in the first place - they were looking for a response that THEY wanted from you.

I'm not sure getting older has helped me (yet) - I get just as much abuse as a 34DD 13 year old as I do now at 14 stone and 40.

Avaboosmummy if you've read the thread and still don't understand (note I didn't say agree) then I don't thing your opinion is worth muc. People being upset is laughable? Well that's not very nice, is it?

YY great crossness if not simpering gratitude for "nice tits" or "give us a smile"

It's not a matter of being able to tell them to fuck off.

Believe me, I worked in dive bars for years, lived in seriously dodgy areas, I am totally capable of telling people to fuck off.

But I shouldn't have to, all the time, just because I'm a woman walking down the street. I understand that's the way the world is unfortunately but I don't have to like it and I will certainly put the onus on those men being pigs, not on women who are tired of dealing with it.

I mean, seriously? 'Just tell them to fuck off?' Gee, why didn't I think of that! That will solve that problem everywhere, forever.

AbigailAdams

If you choose to discuss anything on an open forum you will have people who agree and people who don't.

I've been reading this board for a few months and I don't really feel there is much that is constructive on here.
As 'feminism' doesn't speak for all women then I wonder what the point of it is. I am all for equal rights, but it seems that feminism can't get above the men hating mindset and appears to rubbish women's/female strengths rather then champion them

When I were a lass and really hardline and a MAN approached me and asked me if I would like a drink etc, I used to say, "I do not want to have sex with you." Then of course they'd go, "I only asked..." and me, "What, you just want to buy me a drink and then leave? Great, go ahead." Then quite often they went off in baffled retreat and we could skip the Fuck Off stage.