Understanding how 'positive' attention is still unwelcomed.

[msrisotto]

This has been on my mind recently because I have realised that I don't trust men I don't know. I've been brought up not to (Stranger Danger! Mum always said if you get lost, approach a woman not a man etc) and my experiences with strange (as in strangers) men have been unpredictable....it was hard to explain which is why I didn't post until now, when I saw this post on Jezebel which actually explains it well.
jezebel.com/5953909/look-guys-even-nice-can-be-annoying

Now, as usual for these kind of posts, I have to qualify what i'm about to say with - i'm not boasting or saying i'm ever so attractive [Samantha Brick].
So recently I gave some directions to a bloke in a car, when I was finished, he said "You look fantastic by the way", I put my head down and walked off. The other day in Wenzels, 2 builder blokes stared at me and one said Hi, I ignored it, looked the other way and left with my purchase. I was wondering about why and came to the conclusion that I must just be shy or weird but I think the article explains it much better than I can. I'm not shy. When I was single, I welcomed attention in bars and nightclubs as they were appropriate situations to be meeting new people in a meat market kind of a way! Plus I was with my friends. But when i'm just trying to get on with my life, it's not worth engaging.

I dunno, this is a kind of outpouring of poorly formed thoughts that have been swirling round in my head over the last few weeks. If anyone has any thoughts, please come and talk to me about it!

i have been beeped and whistled at while with my dh so the "cause she is alone thing is bollocks" drives dh nuts too, its disrespectfull on all counts.

i have made complaints about a certain builder where i oive (the houses are still being built) for comments i wasnt supposed to hear but did.

i dont always take offence but its hard when some men are stupid with this type of thing.

Ooooh slug, that's a good one.

I like this bit:

'So if you speak to a woman who is otherwise occupied, you?re sending a subtle message. It is that your desire to interact trumps her right to be left alone. If you pursue a conversation when she?s tried to cut it off, you send a message. It is that your desire to speak trumps her right to be left alone. And each of those messages indicates that you believe your desires are a legitimate reason to override her rights.'

live not oive

I have to say, after spending a year studying in France where I got asked out for a date on the street or in the supermarket several times, sometimes in quite a harassing way, mere wolf whistles or "All right luv" comments seemed reassuringly stand-offish and British. It is far from perfect here but we can certainly walk around unhassled (as you should be!) considerably more than even say just across the Channel.

LFC and possibly others. Trying to write this gently. I think I am right in thinking that some of the posters on here have been abused by men in the past. Does this make or mean that you are sort of in a constant state of awareness of approach/attack/attention/.

I suppose speaking from my own position,though I have never been abused, I am more in a state of alertness in some towns that may be a bit shadier/possibly less safe, ifswim.

I doubt it, amillion. I've always hated people behaving like twits - it doesn't require abuse to make me hate it. I don't follow why it would?

No, not abused - I just find attention unwanted. I agree it's as if their right to harass you trumps your right to go about in peace. It really shouldn't.

Me neither.

I dont know if you have been abused LRD? You dont have to answer if you dont want to.

ok. I'm getting myself confused. LFC hasnt been abused.

million pretty much all women have been abused by men on the street. The comments we are talking about are very, very common. And if you don't respond in a positive way - if you don't smile, or rebuff an advance, then being called something foul is also fairly common.

So in that sense, yes, most women here will have been abused. But if you mean in the sense of domestic violence, then no. For instance, I've never been in a relationship with someone who abused me, but I get really annoyed at this sort of street harassment.

No, I don't have to answer.

Why do you ask, though? I don't understand how the logic works.

Abuse is not the same as wolf-whistling in the street. They both result from a misogynistic culture but - and I am trying to say this in an equally gentle tone because it is not an easy thing to say - I doubt anyone who has been abused would find the comparison of it to this very appropriate.

You are implying people who're abused are somehow damaged and therefore don't respond rationally/the same way people who're not abused would. You probably don't mean to (just like some of these men don't mean to come across as utter utter wankers), but you're coming across as if you somehow think you can discount other people's responses to this issue if they've been abused, you see?

One doesn't need to have been abused by men to find some wanker wolf whistling at you scary.

Or some man having a go at you (I've been called a miserable cunt in the past) because you don't respond to their "advances". That's intimidating.

Thanks slug.

A million I have never been abused or assaulted. I still find it problematic.

My life when younger was unspeakably miserable because of attention. Could never just go out without being conscious of one's femaleness and appearance. "Nice tits" "smile, love" etc etc, despite living in jeans, no make up, hunching shoulders etc. I physically wanted to disappear so that I could exist as an unembodied pysche and live in freedom from my carcass.

I just wanted to get on with my life and go about my business.

So good to be old and past it.

I probably go about in nicer areas than some,and have not experienced what a lot of other people seem to have experienced. Perhaps I should just shut up at this point.

"Personally, if I got wolf whistled for example,I would be pleased"

I would not.

I grew boobs at age 13, which were fairly large by the time I was 14. I was slim and had blond hair.

Every time I left the house, I was wolf-whistled, shouted at from cars and vans. Random men would start talking to me in the street. A guy tried to pull me into his car one, I was followed a couple of times. I was propositioned for sex by a man who offered me £20 and tried to talk me round when I said I wasn't interested. But mostly, it was daily wolf-whistles and comments.

I was a child FFS! I dressed like a tomboy too - jeans, trainers and and baggy t-shirts / jumpers.

It was so much part of my normal reality that I wouldn't even think to mention it when I got home, it was just the way things were. I hated it.

They don't wolf-whistle me now I'm old and fat. (It started slowing down when I hit about 19).

Now on the rare occasion someone wolfwhistles me, I just think "Fuck off". I know they're probably the kind of arsehole who think it's OK to leer at 14 years olds in the street ("but she looked 16" ) and are much less interested in real women.

This was in inner London btw.

I think the point is that it puts women out there for evaluation. And I'm not out there for evaluation - I'm getting on with my life and schlepping around Tesco.

My sister and I were once out together wheeling our buggies down the street and a man shouted out to us from a passing car "nice arses". It wasn't upsetting or unsettling it was just annoying. We were together, minding our own business, clearly in a family setting, and some complete stranger wanted us to know what he thought of us. We were not doing a survey.

This is what men don't have to put up with - being evaluated publicly by complete strangers. Because men are good enough without anyone's opinion to validate them.

I mean I have not suffered the sorts of things EmmelineGoulden talked about. Ever, I dont think,so will definitely shut up now.

Maybe so, amillion.

It surprises me how little this seems to correlate with areas, IME, though. In fact I have noticed that a lot of men in areas that are quite grotty (thinking of St Ann's in Nottingham) seem to be mostly just really concerned about you being ok. I think because there is danger of violence, people are much more attuned to what could be seen as threatening or intrusive.

The nastiest cat-calling I've heard recently was drunk lads in front of ChristChurch.

Any chance you'd share where you live million? I would love for my daughters to grow up without being wolf whistled or leered at!

I think the point is that it puts women out there for evaluation. And I'm not out there for evaluation - I'm getting on with my life and schlepping around Tesco.

YY.