Understanding how 'positive' attention is still unwelcomed.

[msrisotto]

This has been on my mind recently because I have realised that I don't trust men I don't know. I've been brought up not to (Stranger Danger! Mum always said if you get lost, approach a woman not a man etc) and my experiences with strange (as in strangers) men have been unpredictable....it was hard to explain which is why I didn't post until now, when I saw this post on Jezebel which actually explains it well.
jezebel.com/5953909/look-guys-even-nice-can-be-annoying

Now, as usual for these kind of posts, I have to qualify what i'm about to say with - i'm not boasting or saying i'm ever so attractive [Samantha Brick].
So recently I gave some directions to a bloke in a car, when I was finished, he said "You look fantastic by the way", I put my head down and walked off. The other day in Wenzels, 2 builder blokes stared at me and one said Hi, I ignored it, looked the other way and left with my purchase. I was wondering about why and came to the conclusion that I must just be shy or weird but I think the article explains it much better than I can. I'm not shy. When I was single, I welcomed attention in bars and nightclubs as they were appropriate situations to be meeting new people in a meat market kind of a way! Plus I was with my friends. But when i'm just trying to get on with my life, it's not worth engaging.

I dunno, this is a kind of outpouring of poorly formed thoughts that have been swirling round in my head over the last few weeks. If anyone has any thoughts, please come and talk to me about it!

YY let the government distribute Universal Signifiers and shotguns. The problem practically solves itself really.

Then you don't have much imagination or empathy, Rumble. You must have just read a dozen posts explaining precisely why. They were all quite easy to understand, I thought.

namechangey for me what it boils down to is:

You don't have the right to decide what is positive for me, just because you're a man. (not YOU personally, obviously!)

You don't have the right to comment on how I look when it is completely irrelevant.

A woman doesn't do it. Because she sees me as a person. Not someone who should be judged on appearance.

"Smile, love." Why the fuck should I?

Wolf whistle. WHY? What is your whistling intended to mean? I earn your approval for being slim/long haired/wearing make-up what??? And why do you feel the need to comment on it at all?

That's about it. For now :)

I know the traffic light thing is tongue-in-cheek (God, I couldn't wear yellow ), but I don't like the idea of having open season declared on me just because I'm single either. It goes back to the idea of women existing in a perpetual state of consent, doesn't it? When actually, no, I am not bloody interested in shagging you, o random man- why would you presume I was?

The best response I have ever found is to entirely ignore them, not smile politely and then ignore - literally just stare through them or turn around and walk away if approached.

They are usually entirely confounded by that - there is so much conditioning to be polite or accomodating (or assume I'm deaf or listening to headphones).

Im so glad I found MN! When I hit my teens and encountered things like this - wolf whistling or the "smile love" comments I used to feel very vulnerable but my Mum always told me to be grateful for the compliment. I never understood why it wasn't ok, just knew I didnt like it. MN has reinforced my gut instinct and threads like this always result in me reading and going "ahhh that's why I feel like that".

My mum was abusive and so was my last relationship which I left my mums home and walked straight into so Im still trying to relearn boundaries and whats "normal" and not. Every time I get a "ahh" penny drop moment I feel like Im a step further in readjusting my boundaries.

I can only imagine how hard it must be for a man to even approach a woman. It must be a minefield if stating that a woman looks lovely is seen as an unacceptable to gauge. Just silly! Are they still allowed to smile at us or is that also seen as rude and somehow putting us down?

UltraBOF. If you were at a party,and single,I presume you are ok with random strangers just talking ordinarily?

"I can only imagine how hard it must be for a man to even approach a woman"

I don't think it is hard at all. Approaching people in the street or approaching women going about their own personal business is a sexually aggressive move. These men are approaching you in the hope that you are interested in an encounter with them.

Are you seriously saying we should feel sorry for men who shout out at women in the street ?

But Boffy, you wouldn't have to wear the signifier. You could approach men you were interested in who sported it. See? Hands you back the power. Men apparently are delighted to be approached.

I think this is hard to discuss on the net because of tone, but it is glaringly obvious when someone is crossing that line. If it's obvious to me, why isn't it to them? Why can't they be bothered learning that distinction?

I am chatty and I enjoy chatting to the people I meet out and about, or having a gossip with the person on the till in the shops. And I do fairly regularly comment to strangers on their nice clothes/cute baby/whatever. It is very easy to tell when men (or women) are commenting in the same way - intending to be pleasant and make you smile.

OTOH the wolf-whistling by men in groups seems to be all about those men having an opportunity to snigger to themselves and pose a bit. It's got nothing to do with me except the fact I am walking past and in possession of a vagina.

Smoke and mirrors.

If a man came and spoke to me and treated me with respect (which doesn't, strangely, revolve around telling me I'm a babe) and had normal human interaction with me then, great! Let's have a chat and he would probably be able to pick up whether I'm interested or not - and if I'm not and politely tell him so then why should I be subject to abuse? I shouldn't be should I?

That's not what this thread is talking about is it? It's about a total stranger making a remark on my appearance, whether that be "Alright gorgeous?" or "SMILE!!" for some unknown purpose. What does that stranger think is going to happen? Does that stranger think he's brightened my day? (Why should be give a shit, after all he doesn't know me) Or is it that he wants me to simper and give him a BJ?

LFC,do you think that if anyone wolf whistles you,that they are interested in an encounter with them?
Admittedly I havent been wolf whistled for a while now,but I never saw wolf whistles in that way,and doubt they were even still thinking about me, 1 hour later.

The thing is rumble I think there are more appropriate and nicer ways of starting a relationship from something like that. Like "thanks for being so helpful, I hope you don't mind me saying but I wonder if you'd like to go out some time.Here's my number, if you get in touch that's great, if not, no worries."

At all times he is then acknowledging that he is interested in moving things on to another footing but being respectful if boundaries.

NCG I hope that you don't think I am l

Lots of men do love being chatted up. I know, because I have always been the one doing the chatting up. Strangely, however, it's never required me to wolf-whistle and make someone feel uncomfortable.

kim, you are missing the point, I think. The OP isn't saying 'OMG, a man! He spoke to me! NOOOOOO!' She's saying the way some men interact with (or try to force an interaction with) women is shitty and rude.

The thing is rumble I think there are more appropriate and nicer ways of starting a relationship from something like that. Like "thanks for being so helpful, I hope you don't mind me saying but I wonder if you'd like to go out some time.Here's my number, if you get in touch that's great, if not, no worries."

At all times he is then acknowledging that he is interested in moving things on to another footing but being respectful if boundaries.

NCG I hope that you don't think I am looking for a fight, I can well believe my own colour privilege for example means I cannot fully put myself in the place of a non-white person.

Schrodinger's Rapist

Yes, I think they want me to 'flirt' back. Even if 'innocent' (some bloke passing the time of day cos bored) it's not 'innocent' to me - it's annoying, demeaning, I have other things on my mind, I am not sexually interested in anyone else - in short, I do not want to have to prepare a response that takes into account their feelings/politeness/thoughts about my safety.

It happens a lot to me and it's definitely only because I have a vagina and I'm quite short - I look like I can be intimidated. I've had men following me around shopping centres, following me to my car.

It is not because I am attractive.

I agree with LRD, it's glaringly obvious to anyone who can be bothered to learn the distinction between friendly chat and annoying behaviour.

If a man finds himself consistently getting it wrong, he should reevaluate his own behaviour, not complain that women are so complicated and unfriendly or whatever.

V gd slug

slug I will read that article but based on the title alone:

I don't get uncomfortable in these situations because I view every man as a potential rapist it's more why should I be on the receiving end of random comments/wolf whistles/sexual aggressiveness AT ALL? Whether I view you as trustworthy or not?

I have a problem with: vagina = open season for comments

I don't mind being complimented after an initial period of actual conversation. I DO mind being 'complimented' based solely on the premise that I am a woman IYSWIM.

Oh and that last post is not aimed at you slug just the general populous! :)

Ah, fair enough kim. See - tone on the internet. Tis a bugger.

Btw, this reminds me of an incident with my MIL. In her culture you don't smile so much, and her English is shite. Some bloke did the classic 'smile, love, it might never happen'. Cue much confusion and much pissed-off 'I said smile love, yeah ...' until eventually I told him to fuck off for her. It never occurred to him there might not be a universal understanding that if a man tells you to smile, you smile. Twit.