To all those people who have an issue with trans people - please read this

[enimmead]

This is from a transwoman who has been jailed for 41 months. A black transwoman in the USA. I don't know if she is guilty or not. She was at a bar when a bunch of thugs started harassing her. The fact that they had Neo Nazi links was inadmissable in court. A glass got broken and a fight broke out. Ce Ce has been found guilty of stabbing someone and killing him - 41 months in jail (don't worry, it's a male jail).

This is from her blog:

supportcece.wordpress.com/2011/11/20/as-long-as-we-live-in-fear-we-live-in-ignorance/

To the many of us who have struggled, being of the GLBTQ community, this is for you. To those who have triumphed over the idea of conforming to this fascist, hateful society, this is for you. But most importantly, this is for all of our loved ones who have become victims of hate crimes and domestic violence being of the GLBTQ community, specifically Trans men and women, who are singled out and have the highest percentage of victims of hate crimes and domestic violence. My love and prayers go out to the families and loved ones of those who have lost a friend, a brother or sister, a mother or father, an auntie, uncle or cousin, or a partner or spouse to this epidemic. To all those unfortunate cases, this is for you.

In the memories of those who we have lost, it is our duty to put an effort to make a change. We should not have to sit back in the fear of our own lives and well being, or the lives and well being of those we love and care for due to the hate that exist and threatens our safety. We should not have to mourn for the lives of the people we love and have lost due to hate and careless acts. We have to stand up against those who put us down and try to oppress us. We have to enlighten the neophobics of this world and to help them realize the vast and diverse world we live in. because as long as [we] live in fear, [we] live in ignorance.

I thank the lord everyday for keeping me here and giving me such a profound mouth and mind to share my experiences and the trials and tribulations I?ve overcame, because honestly, I never thought I would make it past my 16th birthday. To grow up and have that thought at a young age is unsettling. The thought or feeling of knowing or expecting that today could be my last day on earth, only because someone hates me for being the person I felt would make my life happiest, or for being in an abusive and controlling relationship with someone who has no regards or remorse as to how they treat their partner is an unsettling thought. But it?s more unsettling to know that this is our reality, and that these are the issues we have to face on a day-to-day basis. And even with all that we choose to live our lives, and to continue living them proudly with gumption, bravery, and love in our minds and hearts. I know I still have faith in people, and am willing to make a change if they are willing as well.

We all grow up in different communities, with different social categorizations, but when it comes to being GLBTQ, sometimes we?re excluded and put into a category of it?s own, that is demeaning and belittling, and that no matter where you are we are singled out. I grew up in a community that was predominately African-American people. And with the fact of me just being a minority in this society was bad, being African American and trans is an ultimate challenge. I can remember having loaded guns being put to my head and being beat until bloody. Or walking downs the street and being yelled ? a faggot?. I thought because of their ignorance I decided to change my surroundings. So I moved to a suburban community, which were predominately white people. Then, I remember people grabbing their purses and children, like I was a thief and was going to steal their money and kids, and to still be yelled ?queer? or ?faggot?, which made me feel upset and that my efforts of leaving one community to another, went without victory. Also being a victim of domestic violence was also an issue that I had to deal with in my early teenage years. And fortunately I got out of that situation.

The point I was trying to make was that no matter where you go, or community you live in, people will continue to discriminate. And as long as we do not stand up for our equality, we allow them to have the upper hand against us. We allow for them to feel that?s its okay to verbally and physically attack us. And I feel that it is our duty to give these people the awareness and education about whom we truly are, and not whom they assume we are. We have to make sure that we won?t lose any more of our loved ones due to hate crimes and domestic violence. These problems are often over-looked when it comes to GLBTQ people because people feel that it isn?t as important if it happened to a straight person. Which is ironic because these problems affect us disproportionately. I feel that it is our duty to change the minds of those neophobics, because as long as [we] live in fear, [we] live in ignorance.

We have to be the matriarchs of this society. To start teaching our younger generations about hate, and why it?s so important not to hate. We have to end the bullying and harassment in our school systems. To organize more community actions and awareness about hate crimes and how to stop them from happening. We need to be leaders and role models for all to learn from. And from that we would be able to help and comfort someone who is unsure about his or her own sexual identity and preference. We will be able to eliminate people?s fears of being victims of hate crimes and domestic violence. To help someone to accept and be comfortable as whomever they choose to be, with no judgments or stereotypic labels attached.

And to all my brothers and sisters of the GLBTQ community, this is for us all. This is for those who are still here, and for those who have passed. With love and determination we can be the leaders. We can make a change. Because, see, what people fail to realize is that, even through their hate, bigotry, conforming, and biased views and actions that are enforced upon us,? love is inevitable and overcomes any and all things. And as long as love is in our mind and hearts, it can show us, even in fear, how to be leaders and role models, to be the leaders to show how to overcome the hate and oppression. Love is powerful enough to change the hearts of the neophobics in this world. Because as long as [we] live in fear, [we] live in ignorance."

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There has been so much hatred and ignorance spouted on this forum and i think some people forget trans people are people who deserve our humanity and support, not our ill informed bile and bigotry. I have been shocked at the level of anger on this thread. I have friends who are trans and they just want to exist and be accepted as people. There are a minority of activists who affect what everyone else does.

You may not accept what they believe. You may not accept the terminology. But accept they are people who are just trying to survive in a very difficult world.

Alameda - MNHQ will simply say report individual posts. IME they ignore stuff like this.

Unpleasant and aggressive? You're kidding me.

Eats - when someone posts round here offensive and inaccurate stuff we should all challenge it. Nothing more than that. It's fairly 'blatant' to a lot of people that 'hit and hide' is a tiresome tactic.

eats - the classic TS documentary. :)

Show them trying to cope. Show what they were like before. Show them out and about and peoples reaction.

Talk with surgeon.
Pre-op nerves.

Close up on surgery.

Wake up and feel much happier.

Never any other kind of TS documentary. A friend of a friend was featured in such a documentary last month (My dad is a woman, ITV)

Droves, your point about trans community being divided on trans. This is a feminist board divided by differing views of what feminism is. It's a shame, maybe an equality board would be better for everyone, as it wouldn't be acceptable on such a board to denigrate anyone.

That's the word , dittany. I have heard it somewhere before.

droves - I think this is is one of those subjedcts you have to decide for yourself - there is no "right" answer in that sense. Although I agree with your analysis from a feminist viewpoint.

No being Trans does not excuse DV or any other poor behaviour. And plenty of people struggle with poor starts n life and still manage to not be violent, so that is not an excuse either.

I think as women we are brought up to be sympathetic to others plights and this can make us excuse or pity people who are struggling with stuff like a poor early start to life when we really shouldn't.

In terms of what you tell your children, I think this probably needs to be negotiated with your ex. Sorry I don't know how old your children are but depending on their age, they should have a say too in what they call your ex.

I totally unfderstand that it was a deal breaker that your ex hadn't told you they were Trans. Some biological women do have relationships happily with Trans people, but this should be a choice, not forced on you as it were.
Sorry to hear you are having such a difficult time.

Wasn't originally my point ...I borrowed it from another poster , but like i said I do find it intresting ....and the best way to learn is to ask questions . Feminism , I find does also have differing views on what it is too . Your right . I tend to think of it as a sliding scale of feminism , with myself somewhere on the lower end . (more of the nothing a man can do that a woman can't except pee standing up kind of feminism , less of the all men are pigs and need kept like pets for breeding iykwim { very tongue in cheek } )

Sorry droves you did say your son was 12. I think at this age your son should have a say in what he calls his father. Don't know if it is possible, but I always think it is helpful if children can meet other children in similar situations.

droves - I think I am closest to radical feminism and from your description I would be at the lower end of feminism. Ime it really is a very few extremists who say and think stuff like that

enim - Yes you are right! And it totally misrepresents the vast range of TS people and the variety of their desires, beliefs and life choices.

I think it would have been a really big thing for your ex to have told you they were trans (S or V) at the start. You have a right to know but for many people (AFAIK), they are almost ashamed of being TS or TV and they hide it.

They get dressed secretly, go out at night so no one can see them and go to clubs in secret. Being seen to be "less of a man" is really hard and is judged badly in this society.

I think there are more crossdressers out there than people might think. It is seen as source of fun and humour, a joke, weird, deviant and not "normal". You only have to look in the media to see how crossdressers (and transsexuals ) are portrayed and treated. (sound familiar to feminists)

That is why your husband did not tell you.

That does not excuse his behaviour.

I think people deserve to know who they are marrying. I don't think anyone has a right to keep any big secrets when they are going to get married

Interestingly, this year there has been a 4 fold increase in the number of referrals to Gender Identity clinics.

There has been a lot of positive stories in the media including my Transsexual summer and the Hollyoaks character, Jason (a FTM)

I think it is a good thing society has become more open and more accepting.

But important debates need to be had without vitriiol. From both sides.

Dittany ...autogynophillia ...I've never heard of that before . After a quick google it does seem more him iykwim .

Yes my children where court ordered to have access with their father , even though it was proven that he was violent ( male divorce /custody judge - don't even start me on that)

It's going back to court , since the police station pickup he's not had them .FOr the minute contact is phone or Internet only .( long story) .

I don't think I've had it particularly hard , or suffered . I actually think my ex has had a far worse time of it than I did . I can't imagine being one thing and having to pretend to be something else to appease your family or risk being abused ...well actually I can having spent 10 years dressed like hooker Barbie .

Look at those people who come out as gay in the middle of a marriage.

Why is that kept supressed?

People in this life want to be "normal " and there is a lot of pressure to be "normal". People who are not "normal" can get a very hard time going against what society expects.

If you do not get that, you have "normal" privilege IYSWIM

I don't know. I have read stuff about young butch dykes saying they haved been pressured to think about whether they are really Trans and pushed to think of transitioning. I worry that there is very little other explanations in the media to explain teenagers feelings of being gender non conforming. And I worry that there may be far more people in the future who regret transitioning.

Of course getting rid of abuse and violence to Trans people is good

But I do think droves case is different. Her husband sounds awful.

However, I bet there are lot of people out there with partners who are TS, TV and homosexual who do not have a clue.

Because they are afraid to come out and be true to themselves.

People talking about what trans people do with their bodies are completely overlooking things like access to medical care, money, personal health.

Many people cannot afford hormones or GRS, particularly in countries like the US, and the issue of it being available in the UK on the NHS is hugely controversial (and I'm sure would be argued against by most here).

Or for health reasons they could not take hormones or undergo that level of surgery.

So it is possible that not having surgery is about coping with your body it's current state, rather then living in a condition of self hatred.

Not something trans people do to upset rad fems.

I agree about pressure to think you are trans instead of not being "true to your sex" as society expects.

That is the issue I have with hormones for such young people.

The median age of "coming out" is 41.

He didn't tell me . He waited until I was 8 &1/2 months pregnant , and I came home from 12 hour shift , being on my feet most of the day. Exhausted and hungry I wanted to eat and watch recording of corrie and relax.

He paraded himself in my clothes , chicken fillets and badly done make up ...said hi I'm Adele , I want you to fuck me. To which I replied , I'm hungry what's for dinner and I can't see Corry as your standing in front of the telly.

Arse .
Could have put me into labour early .

That was an interesting response :)

And an unbelievable way for your husband to act.

Goth - We are not talking about what Trans peopel actually do. We are talking about Trans people who say they do not want genital surgery and do not want to take hormones.

It may be that the majority of Trans people would not be in the current situation of not having genital surgery if it was easly for everyone to get. But there would still be a lot of Trans people who would not have genital surgery as they currently say they do not want it.

enim - The idea of hormones for kids scares me. I didn't know the median age of coming out is 41. That is very very high!