To all those people who have an issue with trans people - please read this

[enimmead]

This is from a transwoman who has been jailed for 41 months. A black transwoman in the USA. I don't know if she is guilty or not. She was at a bar when a bunch of thugs started harassing her. The fact that they had Neo Nazi links was inadmissable in court. A glass got broken and a fight broke out. Ce Ce has been found guilty of stabbing someone and killing him - 41 months in jail (don't worry, it's a male jail).

This is from her blog:

supportcece.wordpress.com/2011/11/20/as-long-as-we-live-in-fear-we-live-in-ignorance/

To the many of us who have struggled, being of the GLBTQ community, this is for you. To those who have triumphed over the idea of conforming to this fascist, hateful society, this is for you. But most importantly, this is for all of our loved ones who have become victims of hate crimes and domestic violence being of the GLBTQ community, specifically Trans men and women, who are singled out and have the highest percentage of victims of hate crimes and domestic violence. My love and prayers go out to the families and loved ones of those who have lost a friend, a brother or sister, a mother or father, an auntie, uncle or cousin, or a partner or spouse to this epidemic. To all those unfortunate cases, this is for you.

In the memories of those who we have lost, it is our duty to put an effort to make a change. We should not have to sit back in the fear of our own lives and well being, or the lives and well being of those we love and care for due to the hate that exist and threatens our safety. We should not have to mourn for the lives of the people we love and have lost due to hate and careless acts. We have to stand up against those who put us down and try to oppress us. We have to enlighten the neophobics of this world and to help them realize the vast and diverse world we live in. because as long as [we] live in fear, [we] live in ignorance.

I thank the lord everyday for keeping me here and giving me such a profound mouth and mind to share my experiences and the trials and tribulations I?ve overcame, because honestly, I never thought I would make it past my 16th birthday. To grow up and have that thought at a young age is unsettling. The thought or feeling of knowing or expecting that today could be my last day on earth, only because someone hates me for being the person I felt would make my life happiest, or for being in an abusive and controlling relationship with someone who has no regards or remorse as to how they treat their partner is an unsettling thought. But it?s more unsettling to know that this is our reality, and that these are the issues we have to face on a day-to-day basis. And even with all that we choose to live our lives, and to continue living them proudly with gumption, bravery, and love in our minds and hearts. I know I still have faith in people, and am willing to make a change if they are willing as well.

We all grow up in different communities, with different social categorizations, but when it comes to being GLBTQ, sometimes we?re excluded and put into a category of it?s own, that is demeaning and belittling, and that no matter where you are we are singled out. I grew up in a community that was predominately African-American people. And with the fact of me just being a minority in this society was bad, being African American and trans is an ultimate challenge. I can remember having loaded guns being put to my head and being beat until bloody. Or walking downs the street and being yelled ? a faggot?. I thought because of their ignorance I decided to change my surroundings. So I moved to a suburban community, which were predominately white people. Then, I remember people grabbing their purses and children, like I was a thief and was going to steal their money and kids, and to still be yelled ?queer? or ?faggot?, which made me feel upset and that my efforts of leaving one community to another, went without victory. Also being a victim of domestic violence was also an issue that I had to deal with in my early teenage years. And fortunately I got out of that situation.

The point I was trying to make was that no matter where you go, or community you live in, people will continue to discriminate. And as long as we do not stand up for our equality, we allow them to have the upper hand against us. We allow for them to feel that?s its okay to verbally and physically attack us. And I feel that it is our duty to give these people the awareness and education about whom we truly are, and not whom they assume we are. We have to make sure that we won?t lose any more of our loved ones due to hate crimes and domestic violence. These problems are often over-looked when it comes to GLBTQ people because people feel that it isn?t as important if it happened to a straight person. Which is ironic because these problems affect us disproportionately. I feel that it is our duty to change the minds of those neophobics, because as long as [we] live in fear, [we] live in ignorance.

We have to be the matriarchs of this society. To start teaching our younger generations about hate, and why it?s so important not to hate. We have to end the bullying and harassment in our school systems. To organize more community actions and awareness about hate crimes and how to stop them from happening. We need to be leaders and role models for all to learn from. And from that we would be able to help and comfort someone who is unsure about his or her own sexual identity and preference. We will be able to eliminate people?s fears of being victims of hate crimes and domestic violence. To help someone to accept and be comfortable as whomever they choose to be, with no judgments or stereotypic labels attached.

And to all my brothers and sisters of the GLBTQ community, this is for us all. This is for those who are still here, and for those who have passed. With love and determination we can be the leaders. We can make a change. Because, see, what people fail to realize is that, even through their hate, bigotry, conforming, and biased views and actions that are enforced upon us,? love is inevitable and overcomes any and all things. And as long as love is in our mind and hearts, it can show us, even in fear, how to be leaders and role models, to be the leaders to show how to overcome the hate and oppression. Love is powerful enough to change the hearts of the neophobics in this world. Because as long as [we] live in fear, [we] live in ignorance."

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There has been so much hatred and ignorance spouted on this forum and i think some people forget trans people are people who deserve our humanity and support, not our ill informed bile and bigotry. I have been shocked at the level of anger on this thread. I have friends who are trans and they just want to exist and be accepted as people. There are a minority of activists who affect what everyone else does.

You may not accept what they believe. You may not accept the terminology. But accept they are people who are just trying to survive in a very difficult world.

what on earth does the number of trans people you know have to do with your ability or right to speak for all trans people? do you think you won trans top trumps, and you get to decide and speak for al trans people as to what they want?n how does that change the feelings and reality of those who don't fit your definition?

what a very strange way to look at the world. creepy wasn't the right adjective, i think there might be a worse one that is more appropriate

are there any other communities that have elected you their spokesperson, enimmead?

chibi - was that to me? If it was I wasn't making any such claim. If it wasn't sorry for the confusion.

no, pan, it was for ennimmead. you only know 3 people who identify as trans. enimmead knows loads so therefore can speak for all of them as they all want the same thing.

apparently.

dittany, why is it so important to categorise people and put them in boxes? He's an individual, he can do what he likes, without hurting anyone. These threads are always based on:

You're not this
You must be that
If you say this, you must believe that

People are complex, life is complex, simplifying it to meet your own understanding isnt always useful or accurate.

He has his own choice to make. Hormones are dangerous things if the wrong dose is taken.

He can identify as trans and is perfectly happy to live out his life as trans - that is absolutely fine. I think it will be hard because he will have female features but I am glad he is happy.

As far as I know, most trans people want hormones regardless of the risk. Many buy hormones from dodgy overseas pharmacies because the wait is so long. Many take excess hormones causing major problems.

But - as you pointed out, the trans community is as divided as any other community. The FTM who not only retained their womb (which is understandable) but then got pregnant - that raises many questions about their gender identity.

chibi - I'm just basing things on what I have heard. Based on my knowledge of the trans people who I know.

A bit like some people on here.

Yes most Trans people want hormones. And most Trans people do not have genital surgery.

Pan - It is blatantly obvious to everyone else that you are determined to have a go at Dittany on every thread. It is getting really really obvious that you have a personal grudge.

Same can be said about men. But you'd be forgiven for thinking that all men want to control and abuse all women reading the FWR boards.

There is a complete inability to treat people as individuals here. Its just about trying to find the best fit and then lumping every stereotype going on them as it suits the political agenda.

I know three trans people. Two are nice. One I do not wish to ever share a meal with again. But I know I could say the same about feminists (including rad fems) and men.

Its a fundamental problem of the FWR section tbh. All too often people want to reinforce stereotypes rather than challenge them or question them. I think this obsession means we falls to address the real problems because we focus on the wrong thing as we want to put everyone into nice neat boxes.

Yes. Because we're all just like neo nazis for wanting to talk about rape experiences without a penis in the room.

eats and the fact most do not want surgery creates a massive divide as well in the trans community.

I find it strange that someone who was so uncomfortable would not want surgery - the only thing I can think of is the fact it is major surgery or they do not want the hassle of "maintenance" of the surgical area afterwards for the rest of their life.

I will leave that to your imagination to figure out what the maintenance involves.

enimmead

it is just really weird to claim to speak for a community you don't actually belong to, no matter how many members of that commmunity you might know

i know many lesbians but i would not dream of appropriating their life experiences, and claiming to speak for them on some chatboard. it just seems really entitled and creepy and arrogant and wrong.

i can accept that you are possibly acting in good faith, and mean well, but maybe you can make your posts without resporting to being anyone's spokesperson when you really don't have that right or capacity

Hmm - I have met perfectly reasonable Trans people and have said this many times on the FWR board. But in my personal experience the Trans people fighting to access vulnerable womens spaces are not the reasonable Trans peopel. Should we roll over and let these individuals access anywhere they want to because there are some nice and reasonable Trans people?

It's gangs of feminists who roam the streets shouting abuse at gay men, trans people and those who cross dress. It's what we do instead of crochet.

Why do MNHQ allow these trolls and their sock puppets to gang up on Dittany?

enim - I find it strange as well that they wouldn't want surgery. But I think it is important that people understand that most Trans people do not have genital surgery and some Trans people do not take hormones.

The documentaries on tv about Trans people always feature surgery, so actually I think most people are clueless about this reality.

I know several trans people.

Two wear clothes that should be on their Grandma or someone 20 years younger.

One had facial feminisation surgery and is completely fucked up. The surgery was awful.

One seems perfectly happy, is accepted, wears "normal" clothes like most women, treats women's spaces with respect, is on hormones and has to wait at least 2 years for surgery.

oh bless - but when you 'slur' and attack other people, plaintive 'pleas' are utterly inauthentic

Posts like this do nothing to advance the discussion. They are personal attacks. Are you getting a kick out of singling Dittany out and attacking her, Pan? It certainly looks like you are. And yet there you are complaining that these discussions generate more heat than light.

Hmm I see what your saying , but regardless how or where I look at information on the trans subject , it's always going to be an emotional subject .

Because I loved him , I have children with him , and they are asking questions and I don't know really what to tell them . I would like to know what to describe him as , how to explain it to my 12 year old son more than anything I suppose. I do not want my son to question his masculinity or my daughters to question their femininity ,because of shock about their father .

Loads of questions in my mind ...main one is if ex did have a full sex change at some point would he still be their father ? Or another mother .

Partly , if I'm honest , I have a level of sympathy for my ex ,that he does not deserve . He has had a troubled life . I'm just trying to work out how much is due to him being an unhappy trans ( v or s? ) or being an arsehole.

The fact I suffered dv at his hands is not excused by his trans .
I think violence is violence regardless of who lashes out , or what state of being they are in . Perhaps this will explain some of my earlier posts , which I think some may have judged as phobic.

As strange as it may seem it was the fact he didn't tell me he was trans that killed our relationship . Out of all the things that happened , he didn't give me the choice to be with him knowing what he was.It was his fear of rejection that destroyed it before it started . Not mine .

I cannot look away from the feminist angle , as I think I do lean toward that way of thinking . I might not agree with everything posted on the radfems , but a lot of it I agree with.

Female isn't about what you wear , to me it's a triad of elements ,biology on a genetic level ,thinking and experience . So whilst I have have sympathy for trans who are suffering oppression or hatred because of who they are I don't actually think that are the same as born females , because we didn't choose the bodies in which we live and we still get oppressed and abused.
That doesn't mean I don't think they should have rights and supporting laws , just that it shouldn't over ride those protecting born women. ( hard to explain)

Interesting to learn that the trans community themselves are divided on whole trans issues themselves . They don't even agree themselves on what it is ( in some ways ).

I'm beginning to think this is one of these subjects where there will never be clear answers .