Something that's been bothering me

[mumwithdice]

I've been doing a lot of reading lately and talking with DH about his work. He says that one difficulty he has is with women whom he knows to be capable and competent coming up to ask him to do really ridiculously simple things in breathy little-girl type voices (they put these voices on specifically). He tries to manage this by showing them how to do whatever it is not doing it for them. He has also had women try to avoid learning any technical things which are requirements for their jobs (opening zip files) by using the stereotype of women not being capable of techy stuff as a get-out clause.

So what bothers me? I suppose, really, I keep feeling that texts are telling me that women don't bear any responsibility for their actions because we live in a patriarchy. That is, that there is nothing wrong with the women above because they're trying to get by in the system. And yet at the same time, I feel that actions like that do a disservice to women who can and do want to do technical things because it only reinforces stereotypes.

So can women do a disservice to other women and thus to the aims of feminism?

I am genuinely asking because I don't know the answer, it really bothers me not to know, and because I've found this board quite good at answering questions. Also, again, if this is Feminism 101, please tell me and I will look it up there.

Bloody hell Beachcomber. That is truly scary.

That's reminded me I had a male boss when I was temping (head of the Reuters TV newsroom, so not one of those backwaters that Sanjeev was talking about), who had the password STW on his computer. Stood for soapy tit wank. Very hilarious.

He used to regularly shag all the new young female trainees who came into the newsroom. It was common knowledge. He also had a private office phone for his various assignations to use, including one female journalist whose husband he had sent off to Bosnia or somewhere like that.

But I suppose if any woman had spoken to these men in a breathy little girl voice they'd have been quite right to disrespect her.

The only one that scared me was the one who told me about forcing himself on me. He did it in a sort of jokey, you should be flattered way. I left the company not long after - I found out after that he had sexually assaulted another woman (not a company worker).

Pant man was sort of pathetic. I was fucking furious not scared.

He was probably saying that as a test to see how you reacted and whether he could get away with assault. Terrifying.

Probably. I think the sexual assault came after me - I think what he did to me was part of building himself up to actually assault someone. I was just lucky - I don't think I reacted in a particularly assertive way. I just left and thank god he didn't try to stop me, nothing I could have done.

Brrrr anyway enough of me and misogynists I have known.

You're right SM - let's talk about sexist laydeez, much nicer topic.

get it right,i said it's legitimate to acknowledge female and male can be sexist
rather than pointedly overlook or dimiss
so yes I do assert lets talk about female and male sexism

Given these instances of overt sexual harassment /assault at work, what does anyone suggest we do about it?

And Nyac, it is nice to know you have read my posts, even if you are selective about which ones you choose to acknowledge/respond to.

Can you take your digs somewhere else Sanjeev? They're irritating.

Okay, no more humour. No offence intended. Ignore my second point. What about my first? What do we do about this behaviour?

Was that supposed to be funny? I thought it was whining.

Sure. Anyway, about my second point - what actions do we take over this kind of behaviour?

Sorry Sanjeev, you don't get to become interrogator after your "dick-waving" comment.

I am trying to be constructive here. There is no interrogation. My question was to all posters. What actions can we all take to try to end this kind of behaviour in the workplace? That is the point of this discussion, isn't it? An end to sexism in the workplace? There are plenty of examples posted? Are there things we can do? Is everything to be dealt with on a case-by-case basis, or is there something we can fix in the workplace?

you're being most peculiar nyac

you demanded another poster reveal their identity accused her of stalking you across mn

now you assert you're being interrogated

ease up on the hyperbole,you're not being interrogated
a direct question asked, yes
sustained attack or interrogation, no

I initially thought I worked in a pretty good office but only a few minutes of thought I recounted these lovely stories.

I have one boss who has made all the women in the office cry with his bullying.

I have another boss who announced to the rest of a female colleague's team the reason she had been off work. She had been beaten up by her boyfriend. He announced this with a comment along the lines of: I bet you won't do that again. Joke of course.

I have a male colleague who stroked a woman's bottom as she was carrying a heavy piece of equipment.

I have a team who think Dominic Strauss Kahn and Julian Assange are really top blokes and just being fitted up.

I have another male colleague who has assaulted another member of staff but is still in his job.

But yes those breathy women get me every time.

I think you should spend more time with GarlicButter and ScottishMummy Sanjeev.

HTH.

I used to have a male colleague who would drop his pencil and try and look up my skirt. It was like something from Benny Hill. I wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't actually seen it.

why do you feel so got at?you've got a v persecuted stance
why did you accuse another mn of stalking you,and demand she reveal her identity?

given this apparent stalking,you of course have body of evidence and have reported to mnhq?

indeed if you feel Sanjeev is harsh and interrogating report that too

I was shocked by how many incidents I have just brushed under the carpet or forgotten (there are plenty of other anecdotes). When I really thought about it the men in the office behave so much worse than the women yet woe betide any woman who gets a bit arsey. A bit mind you. Not a full blown rant in an open plan office. No no that is reserved as man's work.

The bitchiest (shouldn't use that word, but anyway) person I ever came across in an office was a man who used to tear people to pieces. And obviously enjoyed it.

He's an MP now. Last time I saw him he was being rude to Jon Snow on the Channel 4 lunchtime news. It was a bit of a relief to see he treated everybody the same.

Hopefully someone will be along in a minute to invent something a woman said in order to even up the balance here.

So many examples, so much mental baggage. I'm beginning to understand.

no doubt you'll accuse him/her of stalking or interrogating you

you project a lot of persecution and distress nyac
your words are overly emotive given the context
stalking interrogation they are words that speak of feeling attacked
whybdo you feel attacked

I've only just arrived and can see a personal attack from where I'm sitting.

Anyway, I've met a lot of people who haven't been good at their job, but it was only a man who overlooked me for promotion for his golfing buddy, who arranged a 'team building' day the culminated at Tiger Tiger and made me out to be a bad sport for not joining in and that was before I even dared to get pregnant.

I've never spoken to anyone in any kind of voice other than my own. Where have I gone wrong?

so you have missed the allegations of
stalking
interrogation

and we are only 726 posts in

they are strong words, I'm interested what's provoked such a strong reaction