Hi, I am Hully's DS. Hully said I could ask you a question!

[Hullygully]

For R.S i have been asked to think, and collect, 10 key points WHY women have suffered from sexism in the past. I can think of HOW, but I am interested in WHY. I would be really interseted and grateful in any thoughts you may have! Thanks!

Or rather that are fought over.

Hully, I have tried to apologise.

I don't think I am thick but am being made to feel so.
I have stated quite clearly that I am no expert but I've been told I have an ego.
If that is not bullying then shoot me now.

Fuck what I said. It obviously means shit.

Now now.

None of this is necessary. I agree, let us start again. Mutual understanding and enrichment should be our goal, surely?

Thanks nickel. That makes sense.

SirCliff - I am Christian. As has been pointed out to you.

I don't think people with faith can't be intellectual.

I have to say, what puts my back up a bit is most people when they make a mistake or say something all authoritative that turns out to be wrong, do have the grace to admit it, and don't pretend it was all a typo or something. If you're feeling a bit embarrassed I'm sorry, and I understand that. No-one likes to make a fool of themselves and I've done it loads of times myself.

But I do find the arguments about religion empowering women worth discussing, and it'd be nice if we could do that properly.

saying someone has an ego is bullying?

You are a Christian, lrd?

Well I never knew!

Santa - that is carrying things on a bit.

I'd rather learn than fight.

Milly the catholics have reinterpreted brothers and sisters to mean close family relations.

Hully, yes.
Also I am aware that paganism has survived but I stand by my assertion that the missionaries tried by sometimes violent means to convert everyone and they probably did more damage to pagan religions in that way.

Religion is being slagged off as being patriarchal and having a male God and a male son, but my point was that not all religion worshipped men, therefore the statement made earlier that ALL religion (their caps not mine) is man-made is not true. Religion is created by people of all sexes to fulfil a need.

righto when i'm accused of bullying i'll just let it pass will i?

LRD thank you. However as I explained, I type as I think and that is certainly not meant to come across as authoritive at all. I am shocked if it is read that way because if you met me, I am not like that at all.

Yes I have rushed this thread and I have not thought out my responses or googled because I have been lazy and distracted. That was slobbish of me and I apologise (again) but I don't think that others gleefully prancing round insinuating that I am thick with a huge ego helps does it?

santa - carrying on after someone has apologised, what do you call that?

I am, hully.

I'm quite interested in religion as well. Christianity is patriarchial, and I know that, and I cope with it. The society I live in is patriarchial, too.

IMO it is better to admit that a religion that sees God incarnate as male, is most certainly responding to a patriarchial society. If I didn't believe that, I would have to conclude that men were truly superior to women, and I don't. I believe Christ was incarnate as man because that's the only way the society of the time could see Him.

Sircliff - I never speculated on your ego.

It's a poor apology if you're only saying it in order to accuse me of things I never said. Very rude.

For my sins LRD, I'm a practising catholic and had a lot of stick on Mumsnet in the past because of it. There is an assumption that you are thick or away with the fairies.

As you said, christianity is very patriarchal but what interests me is that it was not always that way and in fact women played a major role in the NT.

Do you mean god made him male because society expected it?

Again, I'm being misunderstood LRD - santa speculated on my ego not you.

I really should preview post.

i didn't see you apologise to me. though i would hope you would after all the insults you've thrown in.

i have found you incredibly rude, accusing others of playing 'cards' and then making out people were picking on you for being christian and failing that trying the bully card!?

and an apology i did not see.

lrd hope you don't mind me outing you as a christian.

(she's also my wedding triplet, Hully )

(me, LRD and Reality.)

Whatever santa, if you want a grovel you're barking up the wrong tree.

I'm moving on, I suggest you do too.

I do know what you mean about people making assumptions about religious posters - but you know, you're doing the same about non-religious posters too!

hully - yes, I think so.

I'm not TBH convinced that women did play that huge a role in the NT. It'd be stretching a point to see it as pro-women. It's too bogged down in the historical context, which is certainly not pro-women.. IMO.

lol grovel? there's not even been an apology but yes, 'whatever' as you put it so maturely

incidentally pointing out that someone is highly misinformed on one subject is not accusing them of being thick. we all have our specialisms. and some things we are more invested in than we are informed about and that will obviously cloud our reasoning.

What is PARD again? Passive-Aggressive Rudeness as Default? Yeah baby, sign me up for that

'
i have found you incredibly rude, accusing others of playing 'cards' and then making out people were picking on you for being christian and failing that trying the bully card!?

and an apology i did not see.

lrd hope you don't mind me outing you as a christian.''

Erm, do you mean me here? I never accused anyone of playing cards, I objected to teh term as a rude one.

I don't see why I should apologize. I called you on the substance of your posts, which was woefully misinformed. It is absurd to pretend that is my problem.

You certainly didn't 'out' me as a Christian - someone else mentioned it, possibly because I spend a lot of my time on here boring the pants off people by talking about Church history and theology.

that was my point lrd - taking a few examples of women involved in key events in the NT and stretching that to mean it was egalitarian or pro women is indeed over reaching. it also shows how invested we are in the idea of men as the leaders/prominent characters that we see even a few examples of women's presence and importance as a big deal.

LRD fair point. Taken.

Did you read the link I gave further up? An interesting one on how the catholic church refuses women the priesthood because there were no women at the last supper, yet again because of translation issues it turns out there were. Many women were the disciples of Jesus and they were there at the last supper. He washed their feet and shared food with them all.