I am a middle-aged menopausal woman who has had 3 children, a career and a long marriage

[OrmIrian]

i have gained weight, have lines on my face and look my age.

Why do I feel apologetic? Why do I feel uncomfortable about how I look because I don't look like a 19 yr old?

Why do the facts about my looks and my body cancel out the facts in my title? Why can a woman not feel proud of her achievements inspite of the natural deterioration of her body?

Not original sentiments I know but it just struck me how much effort I put into looking 'right' and how bloody stupid it is.

Ha! Agree about self-satisfaction being crap for the economy

I realised today that my increasing girth over the last 18m has actually not bothered me that much. Which is a first TBH. And then I felt guilty for not worrying about it.

THanks for the hair thing. But I confess to being a little perplexed..... I am not a titian pre-raphaelite, or a raven-locked goth.... it's v ordinary hair. But hey....I'll take the compliment

i'm happy and don't feel apologetic

i don't find it stupid to put effort into looking after myself either

"Happy women would be the ultimate feminist revolution."

God yes imagine how different society would look, if women were allowed to be happy.

But why should you look like a 19yo? You have qualities that a 19yo lacks, and they give you a beauty that a 19yo cannot have.

It's an interesting question. I don't feel apologetic as much as disgruntled - I'm not happy looking/feeling the way I do; I resent it. I feel like I should look better/younger/brighter. And yes, I have been manipulated into buying crap which is never actually going to reverse time but much of it has been driven by my own disgruntlement.

I know my DH doesn't feel the same (about himself, I mean).

I am 45, have 4 kids, long marriage, career.
My DH is 42, has same kids/marriage , own career.

He worries far more about the physical effects of his body ageing than I do about mine. TBH girth/lines/things generally going South don't bother me much - gray hair however . Seems like an insult to me...

I find I am now 'looking after' myself in different ways: not as self-critical, happy with achievements, and more of a take-me-as-you-find-me attitude.

Having said all that, I have always been fairly low maintenance....

And yes, I do think it is a feminist issue. And a general social issue: the more experienced, older person is not as valued as they once were, here and still is in some other societies. Maybe I'd feel different about my grey if it were a sign of honour rather than impending decrepitude .

This really resonates with me.

When I was about 15 I was HORRIFIED by a friend's mum (v intelligent, great family, loads of interests, worked as a music teacher etc etc) saying that she felt her life was over, that she was redundant and there was no point to her.

I am 49, have a good career, long marriage, one much beloved child, plenty of interests. And I feel the same. Basically invisible as a middle aged woman and dreading hitting 50.

Sorry for the doom and gloom, but weirdly I've been thinking a lot about this over the last few weeks (as 50 looms I guess), and now can exactly see where my pal's mum was coming from.

As a plus, I have quite good hair once the grey's covered .

Aha! I have no grey! I reckon grey hair is an indignity restricted to those who had an interesting hair colour in the first place. Unlike me.

sea - I am fit, healthy and I have a normal BMI. I haven't failed to 'look after myself'. That isn't the same as looking 'beautiful'.

Ah, but 'beauty is in the eye of the beholder', non?
So, if experience, knowledge, life history were linked to the concept of 'beauty', rather than youth, health, fertility, then we'd all be on Britain New Top Model

I don't see middle-aged women as invisible, and I cannot imagine feeling invisible myself, but maybe I am deluding myself...
Having said that, should anything ever happen to DH or my marriage, I am going to concentrate very hard on this and will not go 'out there' and start 'dating'

I don't wish I looked like a 19-year-old, Ormirian, and you look ten times better than me! I went through a phase of 'minding' that I'd lost my looks (or, rather, that my looks no longer gained the admiration of strangers) but it was pretty short lived. I'm now having fun with my new appearance - veering from smug social invisibility to loud experimental outfits - and LOVING being much more outspoken!

I always was outspoken, you know. But nobody paid attention when I was pretty. Maybe I'm more ruthlessly outspoken now, who knows? It's good, though

I am heading, very deliberately, to a state of glorious eccentricity. Like Jenny Joseph's poem, only more so! Give it a couple more years; you'll see

Menopause is as disruptive a transition as puberty. Just as puberty triggers self-doubt and a changed identity, so does menopause. The fact that societies (logically, if you're reductive about it) value women of reproductive age more highly than non-reproductive women and girls becomes a matter of interest and detachment.

The arthritis, rheumatism and weakness aren't going to be as much fun, so it'd be a shame to waste this bit by wishing you could wind back the clock.

Sorry if this has seemed shallow or something; it could do with lots more discussion imo, but all my attempts to do so end up with people posting about anti-ageing regimes and/or grandchildren.

Oooh, lots of x-posts!

X-post, garlic

I do feel invisible, and was having this conversation with a colleague who's a few years older than me recently, who felt the same.

One incredibly shallow thing I've noticed in the last couple of years is the nice interesting conversations one has with good looking young men, because they find you completely unthreatening and rather like their mums.

I've been v. nosey and had a look at your profile, Orm - your children are absolutely gorgeous and so are you.

Personally I found that ageing/widening meant I became invisible at work - from having people (men, generally) listening to my opinion (or appearing to, at least!) and treating me with respect to being talked over and dismissed. It hurt and baffled me, and for a while I did get depressed/do silly diets/buy more make up in an attempt to get that 'me' back again. Then I realised how mental the whole thing was... now I just want to be fit, rather than thin, and feel good about myself. That wellness thread is a good reflection of how I'm feeling at 45...

I'm used to being invisible. Most of my life I have been the 'fat friend' who sits at the side, not being chatted-up. Even when I was lean.

Now that I don't have to conform to the youthful photoshopped standard imposed upon us, and my peers are also feeling the effects of motherhood and ageing, I have become visible!

It's peculiar.

Of course, I'm still invisible among younger people. Now it's because I'm 'old', rather than 'different'.

The work thing is a very serious problem, lovecat. It's really not about being thin, fit, glossy or sexy, either. I was all those things at 45 but still couldn't get another job, despite a rock-solid CV and a raft of adoring high-worth clients. That was just before the AD law came in, and people told me fairly certain terms what the issue was - "You've been around the block a few too many times" was my least favourite of many.

Three years later, I was one of 16 redundancies in my department, out of around 50 members. All sixteen of us were over 40. I chose my new career specifically because it happens remotely, so customers don't see me before making their decision.

My brother, close in age, says ageism affects him too, but that it kicks in later for men. He also reckons it's far harder for women to successfully frame "age" as experience. People see the age first, regardless of gender, but men have a better chance of altering that to a more positive perception.

I've got a worrying feeling that, before long, I'm going to have to find a way to make a living out of being an eccentric old bat

Invisible? Not sure about that one. To me 'young people' are invisible - not in a hostile way but because they are not relevant to me right now (as a middle aged mum of pre-teens. Other middle aged people are highly visible (I compare - I can't help it) and older people since they could represent my future....

I work in an academic environment and I think age is valued there. If I see a middle aged female academic I think wisdom and experience. Plus clever faces age very well

Maybe it's where you are in your mind - I know there are really boring things I do which make me feel "grown up" (and I'm a middle aged professional woman for goodness sake who would shout at her clients if they behaved like this) - eg if I have some work done in the house, I feel "grown up" because I ask the builders to do something, pathetic isn't it. There are other equally daft examples, but I still feel sometimes like a kid playing at house. So all of a sudden feeling like an invisible kid playing at house is very odd.

Congratulations OP! Seriously, congratulations. You're in the middle of one helluva life. Me too and I love it. I love that I can look back and forward - I've never really been able to do that before IYSWIM. I'm too busy enjoying where I am to worry about how I look.

And what's the alternative? Exhausting yourself trying to 'compete'? Spending thousands of pounds asking an expensive butcher to remove the character from your face?

The only thing I wish I was is a little bit fitter, but that's about long term health, not looks.

Also agree that young people seem invisible to me.

"Young people are invisible to me"

That is such an interesting comment.

I realise now that I agree with it. I didn't realise before.

I thought it was bcause I was deliberately looking the other way, but I'm not.