I am a middle-aged menopausal woman who has had 3 children, a career and a long marriage

[OrmIrian]

i have gained weight, have lines on my face and look my age.

Why do I feel apologetic? Why do I feel uncomfortable about how I look because I don't look like a 19 yr old?

Why do the facts about my looks and my body cancel out the facts in my title? Why can a woman not feel proud of her achievements inspite of the natural deterioration of her body?

Not original sentiments I know but it just struck me how much effort I put into looking 'right' and how bloody stupid it is.

I am just loving this thread - thank you all!

It's been a long rubbish day and you've all cheered me up enormously.

I totally agree about the Middleagedness mindset being far more of a worry than wrinkles.
My brother (2 years younger) was a raver, out all hours, partook in his share of mindaltering substances in his day, v trendy, lots of girls etc etc, you get the picture. I was good at school, had a few good friends who I am still friends with, uni, job, married aged 31, first child aged 37, last aged 44 .
My DB (who I get on well with) v suddenly and for me rather alarmingly turned Middleaged in his late 20s : cardies, slippers, no pipe so far, but I think that might be next... Worries about cholesterol and What The Neighbours Think and whether the diverse school in his neighbourhood will be good enough for his PFB etc. Makes me shudder at times.
And he's a MAN! So there. It's all in the mind.

This is a really interesting thread and inspiring. I'll save this to read when getting back on the "poor old me" bus which has been making too many journeys round here lately.

But I did have an odd moment this morning, went to hairdressers to have the grey and mouse bits attended to, first time for ages. When I agreed that I would like a magazine to read (actually had a load of work to do on the Blackberry so was fibbing anyway), I was presented with a choice of Woman and Home, Prima and Good Housekeeping. Nothing wrong with all of those of course but this was what I was perceived to have an interest in, not Vogue or Marie Claire or even Cosmo etc etc fgs. All rubbish of course and note what someone upthread says about magazines but still. If it hadn't been for the positive things on this thread yesterday I think I would have wept! This sounds so incredibly shallow I know but it did reinforce my view of myself as " some old middleaged old dear" And I'm frigging 49!

Tiger, I'm 50 and have experienced exactly the same whilst having my grey bastards zapped hair seen to by my 12 year old hairdresser!

Have to wrastle a copy of Harpers out of her hot little hands every time!

She always speaks to me very kindly - I am older than her mum you see, and ever since I went to back to University (thius defying the laws of logic and nature) , she's decided I need to be humoured, like an eccentric elderly aunt.

You've cheered me up already, Lapsed. It was just so funny, this thread last night then pow, I became an elder person this morning surrounded by little blonde flibbertigibberts (sp?). Wish I was back at University, I'd have a better time this time round I can tell you! I went off and found a Cosmo, which I have to say probably depressed me more after a few minutes, I'm quite glad I don't have a teenage daughter if life is supposed to revolve round slebs and sex tips. Good grief, I am now a curmudgeon as well.

Orm, I mix with a large number of post-menopausal women now that I'm on a work placement internship in a museum. Really lovely fascinating intelligent women, who would go crazy with boredom being stuck at home all day now they are retired. Many are former academics, archivists, librarians, civil servants, artists etc, who volunteer in a wide range of capacities. Yet they are all but invisible in our society. They are very concious of not being VALUED.

Younger women complain about sexism and sexual harassment but it's a hell of a lot worse in many ways for elderly women. Why is the term "old woman" used as an insult, instead of just being factual description of a person's age and gender?

Tiger, I stopped bothering with Cosmo back n 1986 when I was 25, after 10 solid years of devoted readership. All the same articles were being recycled and there were only so many times I could cope with tips on improving my sexual techniques. Nowadays I just don't know who ANY of the celebs are - don't watch TV much these days. Am also becoming a curmudgeon ("who the fuck ARE these people? ........")

University is absolutely great! I love hanging out in the pub with the youngsters on my course. Not sure whether my sentiments are reciprocated though, it may be that, like my hairdresser, they are humouring me. They are also a great source of advice on dealing with my 15 year old DS!

Sorry, I won't apologise for my age (d'you see what I did there?).

I am a 51 year old menopausal woman who has 2 children and 3 step-children, a career, one long marriage and one short marriage.

I'm not middle aged, and never intend to be. I think middle-age is a state of mind (some people are middle-aged at 30). And I certainly don't feel that I'm invisible - if by invisible you mean that people don't take notice of your opinions. But then, I don't allow them to not take notice of me. I feel I have far more confidence in myself now than I did in years gone by.

I go to a German language group that is mostly attended by ladies 'of a certain age' (I'm one of the youngest) - what a wonderfully interesting, vibrant, intelligent, engaged lot they are. It's given me a realisation that life is what you make it, whatever age you are. But it's also made me wonder why we have to point out that women of this age are interesting, vibrant, intelligent and engaged.

I think it's in the mind. For some reason I've always liked how I look and that has not changed over time. In fact now I get more sleep (my 20s with small babies were tiring) than in my 20s I feel better.

I am in my 40s, 5 children, no menopause signs yet, feel fine. Think I look good. I think my looks are about 5% of how I define myself however and certainly in work terms I'm sure I'm in an ascendant in a sense so perhaps this is mostly an internal issue.

Analyse why you feel uncomfortable not looking like a 19 year old. Most women in their 40s are fat so any of us who aren't will immediately stand out as pretty exceptionally good looking. May be you've put on 4 stones since the photos of 3 years ago of course. That poor lady who was told she was dying indulged herself, put on 4 stone and now is told she'll live so is trying to lose the 4 stones in today's news.

Why would a line on a face matter?

Am I protected against all this by not watching television and reading the FT? In other words if you divorce yourself from popular culture of vacuuous women whose life is hair dressers and their looks do you do yourself a favour?

I was in Central America earlier this week at a hotel frequented by Americans. I went down to breakfast to an incredible site. Everyone was over 60 or 70. There were zimmer frames! It like an OAP episode of South Park. It certainly made me feel young.

if you divorce yourself from popular culture of vacuous women whose life is hair dressers and their looks do you do yourself a favour?

In terms of self-esteem, I think so. As Baz Luhrmann said, "Do not read beauty magazines, they will only make you feel ugly." Divorcing yourself from popular culture could leave you a little short of small talk, though, and dismissing its members as vacuous could leave you a little short of friends.

I was in South America a while back, at a hotel frequented by Americans, and was met by the incredible sight of 50- and 60-year-old women looking like Barbie clones. It certainly made me feel human.

In Jamaica this summer in an eat all you like all day hotel (the first time we ever stayed in one) there were such huge Americans - some going for a full dinner at 6.30pm and then a second one at 9.30pm. The obesity epidemic I suppose is a topic for another thread.

I think we are affected by those around us. I have always been the youngest at most things, graduated at 20 , working full time in the City with a house adn 3 children and nanny by the time I was 26, etc etc So I've not much experience of being older but it's not bothering me so far.

I think by reading a lot of newspapers and we do take Tatler and Vogue too and I watch one film a year about on a plane, I do have enough to talk about things with most people.

If you go tnad plonk yourself in a residential area where women are all housewives at the gym all day trying very hard to keep rich men to stop them finding a younger model. Or a trendy place where everyone is fussing about how they look. If instead you live somewhere where women are normal you'll find it a lot easier.

Many women do feel satisfied at their achievements despite being fat or 80 for that matter.

Also when you turn 40+ I think you have so much more contentment and confidence which as a teenager and 20 something is often lacking. Teenagers worry if they are wearing the right clothes to fit in with their friends. 40 somethings are their own person and wear what they choose for whatever effect they want to achieve.

What?? They had TWO dinners PER NIGHT???!!!!!!
I'm all for getting your money's worth ... but ...

Of course people are influenced by their surroundings, especially insecure women. I felt like a Brobdingnagian in Singapore, and most of the expat women were anorexic. In another country of smaller people, crowds of children used to follow and ask if I was a man!

You may have a point about the relative age of the company you keep, Xenia. I've always been one of the oldest, so perhaps that why I'm fairly comfortable with ageing

Yes, it was interesting what effect it had on the 7 of us too. I think we definitely ate more. I was fascinated that virtually nobody including my lot drank much alcohol even though it was free all day long. Had the British been there with free drink (local rum mainly) they would have been drunk under the table every day by 2pm.

The only bit I'm not looking forward to is in my 70s when bits might stop working/fall off etc. It is the illness of older age rather than the looks bit that is least fun.

The English have always been good at being eccentric and hope younger women today can maintain that tradition.

Hello.

I had the best night out last night! The Soul club had a 'vinyl night' at the Railway club. IE a nerdy man played loads of old records in a shed . All tamla motown, ska and reggae fron the 60s and 70s. Everyone was over 40, nobody was perfect looking, all wearing what made them feel comfortable, and everyone danced all night. No yoof to sneer at us and none of them gave a toss what anyone thought.

Had such a good time.

xenia - I think that is part of my problem. I do feel less well physically. Lots of aches and pains and feeling tired all the time. That definitely contributes to a lack of confidence and well-being. But I have restarted HRT and taken to lots of long walks with the dog so hoping things improve.

That sounds like a good plan. I have been very lucky so far. I feel the same as aged 18, still can do the lotus position etc etc. I also had surgery last year (laser blended vision at www.londonvisionclinic.com, Professor Reinstein) which cured my need for reading glasses 100%, which had come on in my 40s. I do dye my hair and have "had" to since I was about 32.

The other post about Soul Club may be that's the answer. I was born middle aged, singing Purcell, eschewing all but classical music so now I have actually reached a stage where my interests might be the norm I feel even more into my own self whereas as a teenager I did not have the hobbies of most teenagers.

How much did the laser surgery cost Xenia and do you have to go to someone really good to make it work? Loathe wearing reading glasses but am becoming increasingly dependent on them.
I try and focus on my achievements when I worry about ageing looks.

Most clinics and doctors are not experiecned enough to do it on eyes that are going long sighted through old age. Prof R is very good and done many of those operations. I found it annoying that I couldn't even read texts on the phone without having to root around in my handbag to find my reading glasses. I feel much "faster" since I had it done.

It was so good that I paid for my graduate son to get his done at the same place and he'd worn glasses since he was 3 and was astigmatic and long sighted. So we are now a glasses free home.

I think it's about £6k www.londonvisionclinic.com/what-makes-us-different/fees/ for that operation. Mine was a bit more complicated as I had had surgery called RK over 20 years before to cure short sightedness in my 20s which again was amazingly successful so they had to work around my earlier incisions which they did marvellously. I was a bit of a test case in that respect. I bet there is hardly anyone on the planet who had RK 20 years ago and then had laserblended vision now.

(Yet another reason of course that girls should pick lucrative careers in their teens so that in their 40s they don't have to wear glasses - high earnings for women are a feminist issue for me)

Thanks for the info. Will definitely look into it. Know what you mean about reading glasses slowing you down.

Forgot to ask-is it permanent?

God help me, the thought of being my teenaged/20 year old self again just made me look like this .

I am much happier in my own skin now - saggier than it used to be as it might be (pardon the grammar..)

Totally agree about the pernicous comparing oneself to whatever 'ideal' is being held up.

My gran wore only black from around 40 onwards, headscarf, never had her hair cut, only 'lose women' coloured their hair (I have lovely memories of combing and braiding her hiplength grey hair which was then pinned up in a knot). This was the done thing for her generation in her society (Eastern Europe).
My other gran, now 96, had naturally red hair which she dyed when she went grey in her 70s, she had 'suitors' after my granddad died etc. That was the norm for how she grew up (and her personality of course): well off merchant's daughter and later wife.

I was 15 when my mum turned 40. I am 45 and have a toddler . I don't feel middleaged although I appreciate that I am, but don't feel I have to fall in to some 'norm' as there are less norms now, I think.

Orm, do you know why you have all these aches and pains? I gather if you've started HRT you have seen your Gp or someone?

(As an aside Prof Reinstein is v good btw. So far I have only researched him, but am saving up for him )

someone tried to insult me yesterday by saying i looked old. I told him his comment was actually a compliment. I was standing in amongst beautiful 19 and 21 year olds at the time. IM old enough to be there mother, have had three kids etc etc.

i moisturise. wish i was a bit thinner and had some more time to go to the gym, but, am much happier than i ever was at their age.

This is a hair thread !

I've just thought a bit more: I truly don't want my younger self back, but I wished that I had appreciated more then how good I looked, how Not Fat I was, and how easily my body did everything I wanted it to do - now some things just do take a little more effort...

I would love to be a respected Wise Old Crone. Some day. Not just yet .

PacificDogwood, I don't know anyone who doesn't look back and say "I wish I knew how good I looked". I am on a mission to tell all the youngsters I know exactly that. Even if they don't believe me, I hope they might take a few more steps up the ladder than where I was.

At 38 with no kids yet and good genes from my folks, I'm a bit of an inbetweener on this thread. I do identify with a lot of it, though. Actually my no-partner-no-kids scenario is a bit of a wilderness in some ways. I get the veiled "What's wrong with you?" questions a lot. That's for another thread (?board), so I'll love you and leave you.