Facebook supports rape?

[MotherPanda]

Have we a thread on this yet?

www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/oct/04/facebook-hate-speech-women-rape?newsfeed=true

I am really shocked.

"I do not believe that being a survivor of rape gives you the right to verbally abuse someone else. I agree Amor that you have not done this."

OK so I'm a survivor of rape, are you accusing me of doing this?

And if not, who are you accsuing of verbally abusing you rhubarb and where?

I think we should get this sort of stuff ironed out because otherwise it just goes round and round and round

I'm still confused as to who you say has verbally abused you, rhubarb. Can we have quotes, please?

Are we still happy with the way this thread has run? I'd rather it be pulled than have people actually abused, over such a sensitive issue.

Ok, just waned to check that everyone was doing ok.

I believe that everyone is capable of rape, but only some let themselves become rapists. I could rape my husband, but to think of doing anything without his consent disgusts me - what pushes some over the edge to get over this disgust? Is it sexual desire, because I always believed rape was about control. We have had many types of rape described on this thread - thank you to those who shared their stories- and in some of them I think it does have more to do with desire than control. is this ever the case?

aliceliddell Thu 06-Oct-11 14:16:46 wrote;

I've tried to find a useful link to Ray Wyre's research on convicted rapists, but couldn't find one. He found they have the same attitudes to women and sex as 'The Average Bloke'. (Ray Wyre was an internationally recognised expert on sexual/domestic/child abuse)

So was Wyre saying that 'The Average Bloke' was just the same as convicted rapists?

Now I am confused. I thought we had got beyond that, and determined there was some distinction between them and 'average man in the street'. Cath Elliott reappeared on her CIF posting to detail that her words had been wrong and there is a clear distinction in her eyes between rapists and the Mr. Averages.

Looking-up Ray Wyre though wasn't fun. Just putting-in 'Ray Wyre' in Google revealed the dealings with the McCann's and then a connection with someone called Tim Tate (bit of a religious loony) and then worse, his introduction of 'satanic indicators' to a child protection investigation in the late 1980s.

Couldn't find any reference to his qualifications however. He was though a trainee Baptist minister at some point. He also wrote a book Women, Men and Rape.

Looking that up in Amazon didn't provide much detail (it was written in 1990), but I did find another book, an American feminist 'classic' from 1975 - Against Our Will: Men, Women and Rape by Susan Brownmiller, which was subtitled on the Amazon picture of the Penguin edition (www.amazon.co.uk/Against-Our-Will-Women-Rape/dp/014004244X/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1317913857&sr=8-4 "...a conscious process of intimidation by which all men keep all women in a state of fear"

and that quote is lifted from page 15;

From prehistoric times to the present, I believe, rape has played a critical function. It is nothing more or less that a conscious process of intimidation by which all men keep all women in a state of fear"

Must have skipped me, as I don't feel intimidated by all men and kept in a state of fear. I'm wary in certain circumstances and certainly wary of some men, but I'm not kept in a state of fear. But at the time (1975) there was a move towards defining women only as victims or potential victims, whilst my peer group was a bit more bolshy (one of my 'girly' school mates has flown a Tornado jet bomber for five years).

"So was Wyre saying that 'The Average Bloke' was just the same as convicted rapists?"

No he wasn't. He was saying that rapists didn't have markedly different attitudes to rape, to "the average bloke".

You know waht, flying a tornado jet bomber doesn't mean you can't ever be a rape victim. I have a friend who knows how to drive high speed cars in a crowded area (with a siren) and how to use firearms and she's a bloody good shot. She's also a rape victim.

I don't think that everybody is capable of rape at all. I don't link it to sexual desire, either, surely having somebody tell you : 'no, please stop, really, I don't want it' is going to kill that desire stone dead? Unless they get off on another's pain- in which case, they are likely to rape. Ultimately, it is about controlling the other person. My needs are more important than yours. That's the attitude.

A man who is not a rapist may very well feel peeved and disappointed that the woman who has been coming on to him all night doesn't follow through, I wouldn't necessarily blame him his disappointment but, ultimately, if he has as a core belief that other people's bodies don't belong to him he will respect the word: 'no'.

I'm not going to pretend here that a man who is told no at the last minute is going to be over the moon about it-who isn't disappointed about not getting their leg over with somebody they desire?- but that doesn't mean he is going to rape and thwarted desire is not a reason nor an excuse.

What does it all mean then?

I have read the whole thread but couldn't say with any certainty what it all means at all

Well I think everyone's potentially capable of rape in the same way that I think everyone's potentially capable of murder.

But I guess it's only a theoretical capability as opposed to a practical one. I don't know if there are circumstances where you can be absolutely definitive about what the circumstances are that lead someone to rape/ murder.

but not all rapes have people screaming/saying 'no'. What has got me thinking is the rapes that occur when one partner helps themselves whilst the other is sleeping. To me that's more about desire than control.

And the rapes where people don't realise they were raped till 20 years later. They wern't violent events, just as awful and violating - but seem to have confused motives.

Of course, i'm not saying desire is an excuse.

Hully - I'm not sure any of us can answer you.

Wamster lots of rapes don't involve the word "NO".

Ok

I thought the Grauniad article on Iceland yesterday/day before was v interesting. The women there have done tremendous work and are now working on changing the culture around sexual violence.

a bit about no

Thank you for the blog uppity - It really raises a lot of interesting points about female and male conditioning.

And overall...
Facebook supports rape culture

Lying about rape is also wrong and insults those who actually have been raped (even if it is in the 2% - 8% category)

And what the fuck does lying about rape have to do with this thread?

just adding to Lenin's point there uppity

Except of course, to remind us all that women lying about rape, is much more important than women being raped or Facebook supporting hatespeak against women.