Facebook supports rape?

[MotherPanda]

Have we a thread on this yet?

www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/oct/04/facebook-hate-speech-women-rape?newsfeed=true

I am really shocked.

Honestly Rhubarb so many rapists don't think they've broken the law and just as bad, neither do their victims. There are so many "normal" men and women who think that ambivalent sex (where nothing is said or done by the woman to convey that sex is wanted) is not rape. Or that having unwanted repeat sex is rape. I'm sure we've all got acquaintances (if not friends) who believe this too.

It would be so refreshing on this board if all posters just paused for a moment, realised they perhaps needed to reflect on a cherished view and agreed to go away to think about it. But they are more likely to do so, I think, if they didn't feel personally attacked and judged. This way more threads would deal with the issue involved and not get derailed by spats .

Well yes I agree Starry, that's why feminists want to challenge the rape cuilture that says it's OK for a man like my rapist to assume that I mgiht be one of those women who find it erotic to be woken up with a prick in me, before checking that with me first.

SGM - do you have evidence for that? If not then that is what you believe which is fair enough. I also believe that and that awareness of rape has resulted in men no longer being able to claim ignorance.

Drunk rape, sleep rape, domestic rape, date rape - all have been featured heavily in the media.
They know it's wrong, they just don't give a shit.

It doesn't go back to anything, Rhubarb, except perhaps "rapists don't rape because they're somehow evil or perverted or in any way particularly different from than the average man in the street: rapists rape because they can."

Which is what you say you are offended by.

My ex isn't aware he's a rapist, rhubarb

He's of the "well, you consented eventually" brigade...

Enough said on that matter

Amor that is one hell of a story and a very good point you are making with it too. I am so sorry!

Somewhere upthread someone said about simplifying rape definition to include ALL kinds of penetration. Agree. Also to aggressively educate starting from school about continuous consent, so that the type of stories that amor described happens less and less.

And if we are talking about semantics (which is slightly different from sentence structure), the writer does start her sentence with "Rapists", not "Men", so I don't really see your objection.

Good point, LeBOF.

As starry says, there is no one rule that fits all with rape. Some women even go trawling on websites searching for dominant sex and rape scenarios . 50 years ago marital sex was not illegal, now it is. Some women do find some scenarios sexy and others do not.

The crucial factor here is consent. If you do not get that consent then you don't go there. That message has been spelt out loud and clear and no-one can failed to have heard it.

The man may think he is within his rights but he still knows that it is not something he should be doing. Not in this day and age. Not today.

SGM, mine's been shared before in a LOT more detail, but I do think it's something that needed to be said.

Consent does not count if it's obtained under coercion. If she says no once, you don't keep pushing to get a yes.

LeBof, I'm sorry but I disagree that rapists rape because they can.
I disagree that rapists are no different to ordinary men.

Murderers do not murder because they can.
Muggers do not mug because they can.
They all have their reasons.

I am not saying that men who rape their partners think of themselves as rapists, I've already said they don't because of the connotations that the word rape has. But they DO know that violating their partner is wrong, that having sex without consent is wrong, they just don't care.

The reason I think this is because many men go to court and plead that they didn't know that having sex with a girl collapsed on the floor pissed was rape, or that having sex with their wives whilst she is asleep is rape. I do not want to give them that excuse. Because if you think that they didn't know they did wrong then where does that leave you? Are you more likely to let them off the hook because they were apologetic? Mortified? Don't you see that's exactly why some rapes are not reported? But if we get the message out that there is no excuse, then they cannot hide behind that anymore.

SGM - how do you know that I am ignoring a point when it has only just been made?

I've tried to find a useful link to Ray Wyre's research on convicted rapists, but couldn't find one. He found they have the same attitudes to women and sex as 'The Average Bloke'. (Ray Wyre was an internationally recognised expert on sexual/domestic/child abuse)

Thinking about it, I'm sure if I'd told this guy who raped me that that's what it was, he would have apologised as well.

It's a shame that some people are more defensive about their opinions on rape, than actual rapists sometimes are. I've got no doubt at all, that lots of people would be queuing up to either excuse mine and Amor's rapists as not being real rapists, or trying to paint them as far more hideous monsters than they were, because for some reason people want to believe that rapists are different from all other men. The only difference, is that they choose to act upon their sense of entitlement, a sense of entitlement which not all men have, but lots and lots of men who have never raped anyone, still have.

Getting rid of the sense of entitlement, is the first step in getting rid of rape. If that sense of entitlement wasn't so deeply entrenched in our culture, it would be much easier to spot rapists and there would be far fewer of them.

Amor - it's funny that sex education at primary school shows the children how to have sex and what happens when you touch yourself but does not tell them how to keep themselves safe, about respecting each other and about consent.

I've watched it.

So we are bringing up a generation of teens, telling them how to have sex and not bothering with anything else.

So is it the sense of entitlement, which I have mentioned in my earlier posts, what makes rapists different to your Average Joe?

Let me tell you some stories. I have slept with many men, not sexually but I have shared beds with them, sometimes whilst pissed and sometimes knowing that the man fancied me and wanted sex. Not once did any of them take advantage.

We all have our stories to tell. Yours might illustrate how some men will take advantage and not think of themselves as rapists and mine illustrates that not all men have that sense of entitlement.

Rhubarb - At what point does a 'normal' man become a rapist? in your opinion?
I would have thought it was at the point he comitted a rape.