Facebook supports rape?

[MotherPanda]

Have we a thread on this yet?

www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/oct/04/facebook-hate-speech-women-rape?newsfeed=true

I am really shocked.

No of course they don't define themselves as rapists, they are way too arrogant for that, but they do know they have broken the law.

People do not break the law merely because they can. Certainly not in a way that violates another person. I believe that is an over simplistic view of the motives of rape. And there can be many motives but essentially acquaintance rapists believe it is their right to have sex whenever they want it, which is a form of dominance and arrogance. Not just because they can, but because they believe they are entitled to it.

You never hear about male rape victims do you? Same with male victims of domestic abuse who are too ashamed to seek help.

I disagree as well.

Lots of rapists don't consider themselves rapists. Even their victims don't consider them rapists.

I remembered the other day, a man who I went to bed with years ago at a party who was impotent. He was a charming, nice man and I sort of fancied him and was drunk. Anyway, no sex happened because of his impotence and we went to sleep.

At 5 o clock I was rudely awakened by him fucking me. I couldn't move away from him and just had to wait until it was over.

I didn't think of him as a rapist for years - not until the other day in fact, when I realised that legally, technically, he is. I'm absolutely sure he doesn't think of himself as a rapist. After all, I didn't for twenty years and I'm his victim (hopefully the only one but who knows?)

He's not a sociopath or mentally ill or incapable - just a man who thought that his need to prove that he could fuck, was more important than my right not to be penetrated when I didn't want it. Also, crucially, he's a rapist who would never be convicted, because most people, men and women, think it's OK for him to penetrate a woman he's in bed with because six hour earlier she consented at that time for that occasion. That gives him carte blanche to penetrate that woman at any time.

Continuous consent is a really useful concept. It would mean that men like him, who don't think of themselves as rapists and probably seriously don't want to be rapists, would have a very solid concept which meant they couldn't lie to themselves.

It surely depends on the rape as to whether the rapist believes they have broken the law. If it is a man in bed with his wife and she seems unwilling but he thinks she doesn't means it really and then she stops protesting, she could feel raped but he wouldn't feel like a rapist.

Thank you, SGM. :)

I'm sorry, rhubarb, but if you weren't claiming expertise, why drag up your education in criminology? I'd also like to know what I've thrown at you which you consider worse than "twunt"....

I do agree that rapists rape because they can, but there is the underlying issue of some rapists not associating what they've done with rape because they have this overwhelming sense of entitlement. After all, he did take her out to dinner/walk her home/provide a shoulder for her to cry on/marry her. I can't remember who posted it, but soemone posted a link to a "consent" checklist of some sort a few weeks back; eg, if you've done this, it's not consent. Several posters disagreed with it vehemently, but I suspect that's down to the entitlement issue again. I've lost count how many times I've read the line "but she led him on"...

I believe it is a dangerous assumption to presume they do not know they are breaking the law.
They may not want to call it rape because of the violent connotations that are still associated with rape, but they do know that it is morally and legally wrong to force yourself onto someone.

I do not want to give them the excuse of saying they didn't know what they were doing was wrong. In this country, with all the information out there, all the rape cases highlighted, no-one can get away with that excuse.

A man who hits his wife might not see himself as a domestic abuser, but he knows that it is wrong nonetheless.

Dont, I was asked by SQ where I got my information from. I told her. That is not dragging up my education in criminology and that does not justify your posting that I claimed I am an expert.

Calling me someone who blames rape victims is much worse than being called a twunt. I said I would take back that insult if you took back yours, I am still waiting.

Once again you are refusing to let go of this grudge you have against me when the debate has moved on. Are you obsessed? I'm a married woman you know!

No, a man who hits his wife will excuse it away, and justify it both mentally and verbally. Hence why so many domestic abuse (and rape) victims carry around a sense of self blame. Hence the "she was asking for it" line so frequently going unchallenged

I think what happened to you Uppity comes from a culture which confuses itself over how people want to be treated. Some people would have found it amazingly erotic to wake up to the man they were in bed with, doing what the did to you and others obviously don't. He is at fault in this instance because he didn't know what you thought but if it had been a different woman with him, it might have been just what she wanted. And the same can be said with other rapes (though not all). The rape depends on the rapist and the victim and they don't always know what the other is thinking. It's such a difficult issue. I hope you don't think I'm trying to play down your experience, that's not at all my intent and I hope you're coping or have someone to help you cope with what you've just realised. happened to you.

SGM I disagree. You can blame easy access to porn (which I do) and the laddish culture, but there is much more awareness now of the many guises of rape than there ever was before and that is shown in an increase in reported rapes.

Rhubarb, 'as a professional copywriter I can tell you that if that is what she meant, then her sentence structure needs looking at.' - to me, that looks as if you are trying to pretend you have expertise.

I would have liked to post on this thread and frankly, as you know, feel too intimidated by your posts. Do you need to be this aggressive, really?

But why joke about it on facebook? Is it because the men who create and post on these groups are so confident that they are not rapists, that it is something to laugh about? Or are they writing from experience - that they are actually treating women like this and find support and an ego boost from the group.

Are they removed, or involved?

How do you know? Because you think it's wrong? If people on her can sincerely believe they can park in a disabled space for a variety of reasons, you can bet your ass that many men can convince themselves they were perfectly entitled to "push for sex". They won't even allow themselves to believe it is rape.

I agree with starrywillow.

That was to the assertion that men know it is wrong, btw.

AmorY, I just wanted to say I read your post. I'm so sorry to hear of your experience. :(

What an excellent post Amor.

People are so scared of the idea that normal otherwise decent men can be rapists.

In this case, as he was "caught" young enough and was open to being told what was what (instead of defensive and refusing to listen) I guess he never did it again. Rather than it becoming a habit, which it is for some men who don't consider themselves rapists.

I dont think there exists a rape culture against men which is promoted by facebook. So if anybody wants to discuss that, a new thread might be better.

Ella - yes I am and yes I did think her sentence structure was wrong, before I found out that the debate was not about that, she had meant it to read that way and many people agreed with her. I made the mistake of thinking that she had not meant it that way.

LeBOF yes many men think they are entitled to sex but they are also aware that it is wrong to violate, they just don't give a shit either way. They think they are above the law, that they won't get convicted or reported - which goes back to dominance.

Awareness has grown but so it seems has arrogance, because we've taken away their right poor lambs.