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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

So, the car salesman said to me...

251 replies

GooseyLoosey · 28/09/2011 11:38

"When will your husband be coming in to look at the car?"

It is some time since I had come across such a sexist comment and was at something of a loss to work out how to respond. I left, but was that enough - will he understand why his comment was offensive? Should I have explained to him?

OP posts:
wamster · 30/09/2011 08:43

SardineQueen, Of course tying the knot does not always mean that you will have a devoted husband by your side until your dying day. Did I say that it was?

Reading the feminist section has made me dislike marriage- not so much because of how I see it (marriage) but because of how society sees it.

It seems to me that you are in denial about how a patriarchal society views marriage- it is, quite simply, the desirable state for a woman because it saves money for the govt AND because it helps keep the little woman in her place just a few reasons off the top of my head (!)

Why are you denying this (very much accepted) feminist view?

I don't agree with how society views marriage, but to say that I am being ridiculous for understanding that this is how society views marriage is just denying the facts, I'm afraid.
I am not 'shocked' by the salesman's words, nor do I find them bizarre or ridiculous given the context in which he lives, I just look to the sky and think, 'Yeah, to be expected'.

GrimmaTheNome · 30/09/2011 08:53

wamster - sorry, I think you've got an outdated and distorted view of marriage.

wamster · 30/09/2011 09:03

No, GrimmaTheNome, I see it how it is not how I'd like it to be. The way I'd like it to be is straightforward: marriage being an entirely personal thing that is of no business to anybody else besides the couple.

GrimmaTheNome · 30/09/2011 09:09

Ah well, we'll have to agree to differ. Smile

Original poster
GooseyLoosey · 30/09/2011 09:24

Wamster, leaving the intellectual constructs of feminism aside and looking only at the world as I perceive to be, I can quite clearly state that by far and away the majority of married couples I know view themselves as a partnership in which each has a degree of autonomy, not as a joint unit in which there is no significant autonomy for either.

If the salesman was basing his comment on the latter view of marriage, Iam frankly just as annoyed by it as by my perception of it as being sexist. In either case it is based on a view of society which I find, at best, out-dated.

OP posts:
wamster · 30/09/2011 09:38

This is the feminist section of the site. I think you are being unreasonable to think that you're not going to get at least some attempt at seeing this from a feminist viewpoint. Marriage is, after all, seen by some as a tool of the patriarchy.
My views may be ill-expressed, half-baked, even, but at least I am trying to see this from a feminist viewpoint and that viewpoint is that it is wise NOT to get married if you don't wish to collude in the patriarchal oppression of women that is marriage.

MakesCakesWhenStressed · 30/09/2011 09:39

Much as wamster's way of expressing herself irritates me (not sure why, but it does) I do have to agree with one point - if I wasn't married I would be costing the state an awful lot of money.

On the original point, however, I do think that car salesman was being sexist. If it was a joint purchase then either the DH would have come along or the woman making the purchase would, at some point, have stated something about wanting the DH to take a look/have an opinion. Marriage gives you certain legal rights, protects women and children and makes a statement to society, it doesn't make you an incompetent who is incapable of making a solo purchase or stating otherwise if necessary.

adamschic · 30/09/2011 09:44

The only time stuff like this happens to me is DC's school who insist on calling me Mrs Adamschic which is my maiden name. Their default is that if you are a mother you are a Mrs. An unmarried teacher was always referred to as Miss Maiden Name until she became pregnant now I notice it's Mrs Maiden name.

I can understand it, don't want to offend the married couples, but it does bug me everytime I get a letter. Suppose I should be glad I'm not addressed as Mr and Mrs Smile.

stealthsquiggle · 30/09/2011 09:45

Wamster since when is it compulsory to use the title "Mrs" once married? The whole point of "Ms" is that it says nothing about your marital status. Whenever possible I use "Ms" - certainly in all work contexts. It doesn't stop people making sexist assumptions, but it removes their excuse (poor though it may be) for doing so.

stealthsquiggle · 30/09/2011 09:48

adamschic the mother of one of DS's friends has the same issue - her son also has her maiden name, and when she went in to help with reading the DC kept calling her "Mrs Maidenname" - her response was "the only way I could be Mrs Maidenname is if I had married my brother - if you can't manage Ms Maidenname you had better call me by my first name"

wamster · 30/09/2011 09:54

MakesCakesWhenStressed, too right that money is one reason why the govt wants people coupled up under the same roof.

I agree that marriage may give certain rights etc but given the society in which we live, being bombarded with the idea of sharing everything in life and constant couplehood as being the ideal, is it any wonder the salesman asked what he did (if he was being sexist)?
I don't think so; in the society in which he lives it is a reasonable question.
Reasonable does not mean that I think it is right, by the way.

We have a system that colludes via the media and govt to present couplehood as the ideal. Everything must be shared be it: a packet of sweets or the decision-making of buying a car. I think it is naive to think otherwise.

GrimmaTheNome · 30/09/2011 09:57

Its the Feminism/Women's Rights section. Not every thread is particularly looking for a full feminist analysis. This one is I think for most of us a rather simpler eyeroll at the outdated sexism still displayed by some salespeople.

MakesCakesWhenStressed · 30/09/2011 09:57

I think it naive to assume that an adult - whatever their marital status - cannot make a purchase alone. I think the OP should call the garage to point this out so that, at the very least, the salesman in question learns that what he said could have been misconstrued as sexist and offensive. I also think that the OP is perfectly justified in taking the sale elsewhere and pointing out why. Bad salesmanship is bad salesmanship, whether it's sexist in origin or just thoughtless. But you have to put your money where your mouth is or it'll just be dismissed as some 'hysterical feminist'.

wamster · 30/09/2011 10:01

GrimmaTheNome, and do you think this 'outdated sexism' exists by itself and is independent of outside influences? I don't.

If it is just 'eye-rolling' that is required, why not just take it to chat section?

wamster · 30/09/2011 10:03

Anyway, sexist or not, maybe the salesman would have asked: 'when will wife be here to see car?' the implication would still be there that a couple cannot do things separately which is perpetuated by society.

GrimmaTheNome · 30/09/2011 10:05

I'm sorry but I really don't recognise this: 'being bombarded with the idea of sharing everything in life and constant couplehood as being the ideal'. I don't think I'm being naive - I've been married nearly 25 years without ever getting the impression from anywhere that we were supposed to share everything. Perhaps in the past, up to a point, it may have been true - it isn't now, hasn't been so for decades.

SardineQueen · 30/09/2011 10:10

I don't understand why unmarried = costing the state lots of money?

MakesCakesWhenStressed · 30/09/2011 10:14

Well in my case I was ill (as in drawing benefits) for 8 years and although now recovered and trying for work the employment offers aren't exactly rolling in, as you can imagine. I am now self-employed, but struggle to make more than the food bills each week, but my husband supports me and in turn I do the traditional housewife thing, which kind of suits us, but it means money is tight.

If I wasn;t married then I would be on jobseeker's, housing benefit and probably a couple of other benefits too. As it is we just get heavily taxed on my DH's income, whilst the work I do in the home (and soon as a mum) go completely unrecognised by even a tax-share policy.

GrimmaTheNome · 30/09/2011 10:14

I don't understand why unmarried = costing the state lots of money?

Does a cohabiting couple cost more than a married couple? Comparing other domestic arrangement really is apples and oranges. Probably some sort of commune would be most cost-effective but we don't see the state pushing those

SardineQueen · 30/09/2011 10:16

But men don't tend to get asked when "the wife" will be coming to decide on the purchase
And most people in society do not treat married couples, or unmarried couples, or civil partnershipped couples as a single unit
Which is why the salesman's words caused a stir - they were unusual and outdated
It is not the norm in society for people to think that couples (whether married or not) cannot act without each other
And the vast majority of people put couples with a degree of commitment (children, mortgage, whatever) in the same "box" as married people and treat them accordingly.

You also still haven't addressed the point that many people who are called Mrs have not got a husband at home, and why you think it is right for car salesmen (of all people) to pry into their personal circumstances. It's downright rude, frankly.

SardineQueen · 30/09/2011 10:16

But unmarried does not = single, which seems to be what wamster is implying Confused

WilsonFrickett · 30/09/2011 10:22

I think if one single married man came on here and said 'yes, that's happened to me, I went in to buy a car and the salesman assumed that the wife would have to come in and sign-off on the purchase' I would consider changing my view that this happens because of carsalesmens' views of marriage. Until that happens I will continue to think it is about carsalesmen'd views of women.

Rule of thumb: if it's happening to everyone its a PITA. If it's just happening to people of one gender then it's sexist.

SardineQueen · 30/09/2011 10:24

Hold on I am going to ask DH if salesperson has ever asked him when "the wife" will be in. He spends far too much time browsing expensive computer equipment so should have an idea...

SardineQueen · 30/09/2011 10:26

He thinks that a car person might have said once if his wife would like to come in and see it as well.

But never asked when his wife would be coming in.

onehellofaride · 30/09/2011 10:33

I think a presumption that the husband and wife will both need to see the car is crap. Both parties don't need to see something to make a decision on it. I bought a new car a few months ago I told my DH I needed a new car (which he already knew given we live together) and we briefly discussed how much we were going to spend on it. Aside from that I went out picked a car I liked and bought it. It is my car, he doesn't drive it so why would he need a say in the car itself? Likewise he bought a new van a couple of months ago, this was discussed between us but I didn't feel any need to inspect it before he bought it!