So, the car salesman said to me...

[GooseyLoosey]

"When will your husband be coming in to look at the car?"

It is some time since I had come across such a sexist comment and was at something of a loss to work out how to respond. I left, but was that enough - will he understand why his comment was offensive? Should I have explained to him?

Sardine - I suspect that is not beyond the realms of possibility. Depressing thought though!

Goosey I would have been livid with that. Maybe the salesperson didn't 'mean' anything by it and it was second nature for him but its still offensive and unless people speak up and challenge it, attitudes will never change.
I have a few similar experiences, I run a small shop with my husband, when we were opening we had lots of sales people in to offer us, refuse services, broadband and phone, electricity providers etc. While I was there on my own I was asked when would the 'man' be back, not even my partner but 'the man'. It infuriated me no end. I told each salesperson who said that to me that I would not do business with them because they assumed that I was not an equal partner and they had a preference to speak to 'the man'. One man, the refuse service seller, called me a cunting bitch and left the shop. He owned the company so unfortunately there was no one I could complain to, I did tell our neighbours about what he said however. I think that unless we make a point of repeatedly correcting and complaining sexist behaviour, it will continue.

karmakameleon, I'm not saying that he definitely would treat the man in the same way, just that it is possible that he might.
It's a personal thing, but I wouldn't risk a person's livelihood on complaining about this based on grounds of sexism without knowing for a fact if the salesman does actually treat men and women differently. That's all. I suspect that he does not treat men and women the same, nevertheless, I would give him benefit of the doubt. Somebody's livelihood over a suspicion that they may be mildly sexist? Their job comes first.

As for the 'why should a married couple consult each other before big purchases' argument put about by some people here, well I can hardly blame the guy for assuming this is the case given the society in which he lives.

Oh, I wouldn't risk a persons livelihood by complaining without first giving them a chance to dig themselves out of the hole.

If you challenge them, and it was a 'didn't mean anything by it case', then they'll hopefully learn (as in the case of Mr Water Softener). If it was 'second nature' - not something they'd thought about it, just a continuation of outmoded attitudes - then they need to be made aware they're out of line. And if they were intentionally demeaning - well, then they deserve whatever comes to them.

I don't think anyone is arguing that married couples shouldn't consult each other about big tickets items. What they are saying is that it's none of the salesperson's business as to whether they have discussed it and what is worthy of discussion varies from couple to couple so for example I have no interest in DH's car but would freak out if he bought an expensive holiday (for example) without consulting me. He's a sensible man that's known me for several years so he can tell this is the case, a car salesman or travel agent have no idea, so why should they presume they do?

Also as far as his job is concerned, if Goosey makes a complaint and the guy isn't a sexist prick, his manager would probably know this. He would probably have observed the salesman ask if the wife was along soon to agree the purchase and the complaint could be easily dismissed.

Pam that's shocking. :(

I haven't had that kind of attitude from suppliers of any kind, but I have to say, when I get cold callers on the phone, the ones that ring from foreign countries, they often ask to speak to the manager when I refuse to answer their questions.
I have been known to scold them for not believing me when I tell them I don't know the cost of this this or this, and for presuming that the manager is a man. And that they've been very rude, goodbye.

nickel I live in Ireland, my husband is Dutch and he was when I told him. I lived in the Netherlands for a while and never once encountered discrimination based on my sex. Maybe I got lucky there but the attitudes are vastly different to the ones I experienced in Ireland

wamster, if the OP had in fact complained about service she felt was inferior in any way (in this case, sexist) then the repercussions for the salesman are HIS responsibility, not hers.

i find it strange that a female customers default position should be 'oh goodness, must ignore my first impression and my immediate genuine feeling over this incident, in order to protect the man in front of me'.

if this was a thread about anything else, like the salesman demonstrated any other form of incomptence, there would be no argument about complaining. but because it is a woman, responding to some thing sexist (which you are very keen to point out, cant 'really' be proved anyway) you seem to feel that her feelings and view are surely not as important as whatever repercussions it might have on him. the non customer.

Bottleofmilk, so wanting to get my facts straight before I drop somebody in the doggy-doo a i.e. wishing to establish whether or not this man really is sexist-which to be honest can only really be done by testing him and seeing if he says: 'when will your wife come to see car?- is somehow giving in to men?

Righ-tt

It's not about protecting men; jeez it's not as if I even support marriage!! It's about getting my facts straight and engaging brain before action!

So any time anyone does anything apparently sexist it's our responsibility to set up an elaborate sting operation by having a male friend or relative go and mystery shop them, and unless we've done that we shouldn't even indulge in a mild "I don't know whether this is a pattern of behaviour, but this is what happened to me and the effect it had..." report to the business in question?

Righ- (as you so eloquently say) -tt.

In this particular case, the salesman was a REALLY shit salesman. Either because he not only didn't close the sale but actually handed the customer an out on a platter, while being so marvellously non-sexist that he does this to every single customer who enters the dealership, or because he didn't close the sale (etc.) and does this in such a sexist way that he has female customers shaking the dust of the dealership off their feet and vowing never to return. In fact (if Goosey did report him) his job is probably safer if he can convince his line manager that he is an enormous sexist, only does this to the women, and hasn't been also encouraging the male customers to go home without giving the dealership their money. If he's doing it to everyone I can't see him lasting.

Goosey's role as someone who has been put off the product by a salesperson is (potentially, if she feels like doing the company a favour) to let the company know that she's been put off and why. It's the job of the company's management to identify whether it's a one-off or if there's a pattern of behaviour that needs some retraining.

So, he may be a shit salesman, doesn't necessarily make him a sexist one.
This is a section on mn about feminism, not sales pitches.

So, he may be a shit salesman, doesn't necessarily make him a sexist one.

not necessarily - but, chances are ... it seems the likeliest explanation to most of us. That's how it struck the OP, so perfectly reasonable to bring it here - maybe not a key part of the feminist narrative but I'd say a woman's right to be treated as an independent adult comes under women's rights.

Sexism by commercial organisations runs both ways. I know a househusband who is the primary carer while his partner goes out to work. He was shopping in Mothercare and signed up to their storecard. Three weeks later Mothercare sent him a letter saying "Dear Mr Smith, Whether you are pregnant, have just had a baby or have been a mum for some time...".

He also pointed out to me that the Early Learning Centre website About Me page says "At Early Learning Centre, we do all we can to help mums help children grow into happy, self-confident people". So as he isn't a mum the ELC clearly isn't interested in his business, which he has taken elsewhere.

I think you are missing my point. Sexism is pretty much endemic in car sales. The OP, who was actually there, thought that he was being sexist. And the alternative is that he's really really REALLY bad at his job (rather than just really bad at the parts of his job that involve selling cars to women) and his employers have just never noticed before (in spite of that being the sort of thing that gets very carefully checked in sales roles). Occam's razor suggests that he's probably sexist.

Your argument, in this MN section about feminism, seems to be that anyone who thinks he or she has experienced sexism, where the weight of evidence also suggests that it's the most likely explanation, has a duty to personally put his or her own time and resources into constructing fake scenarios to test out the possible sexism and until they've done that shouldn't report it in even the mildest terms to anyone in authority (i.e. the people who have the data to look at the big picture and see whether there's actually a problem, and whose job it is to do it).

The sexism is what makes him a shit salesperson, Wamster.

I am a skiier. A very good skiier.

Last time I bought new ski boots the salesman explained the technical details to my boyfriend. An intermediate snowboarder, but thankfully in posession of a penis.

I decided to rent some skis for a couple of days this year for fun - the guy in the shop explained to my boyfriend that the ones I was asking for were "very stiff" and "not really suitable for a woman".

@ 'thankfully in possession of a penis'

a friend of mine is also SAHD while the wife works. All nursery and school teachers or doctors never tell him what to do and what is needed, but always give him messages for the wife. Some even insist on calling her to discuss something regarding the kids, even though he is sitting right there.

Well, she always tells them what she thinks of that kind of behaviour. they only do it once. :o

It reminds me of when I was in ToysRUs the other day, looking for some accessories for DS3's baby boll. Everything was pink! Apart from one solitary baby boy doll shoved up out of reach in the top right hand corner of the display. All the bibs, nappies, prams, fake bottles, potties and clothes were pinkified. In the rest of the shop we tried to find a tea set that was gender neutral. Again, everything was pink and flowery apart from one crappy plasticky tasteless version that was a bit less pink. Early Learning Centre is the same. Really, it was a lot better in the 1980s when I had DD1. What the hell happened?

A few weeks ago DH and I went to view a house, the MD of the estate agency showed us around. There was a large cupboard under the stairs which he called "the woman's cupboard because it stores the Hoover, ironing board etc"!! WTF... DH and I were . Needless to say I've removed myself from their mailing list.

You are too sensitive. You should have laughed and said, "Oh, for a moment there I thought you were going to tell him he had to store his little wifey in the women's cupboard. Hahaha. You are funny, little Estate Agent man. Like any real women still do ironing in the 21st century! Oh, I am crying with laughter here, you've watched too much Stepford Wives, hahaha".

Get them by the knackers with humour.

Slainte (and everyone else) - please tell them. Just using the option not to use their services is one thing, but they need to know why. Actually, we all need them to know why. Knowing how many sales they lose because of their sexism might just chip away at their beliefs.