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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

So, the car salesman said to me...

251 replies

GooseyLoosey · 28/09/2011 11:38

"When will your husband be coming in to look at the car?"

It is some time since I had come across such a sexist comment and was at something of a loss to work out how to respond. I left, but was that enough - will he understand why his comment was offensive? Should I have explained to him?

OP posts:
GrimmaTheNome · 29/09/2011 12:02

Yes, MmeL - I thought it was a translation too. It always suprises me that when people create a translated website, instruction manual etc they don't find a native of the country to run through it and check for linguistic and cultural boo-boos.

AyeBelieveInTheHumanityOfMen · 29/09/2011 12:04

Great news on the water softener ad change! Perhaps they'd like to make a contribution to Women's Aid or Rape Crisis as a sign of their gratitude at obtaining some free marketing advice?

BedHog · 29/09/2011 12:22

I went with DP to a garage once to find a car for him. He wanted something small and nippy and had his eye on a Ford Ka. While he was off test driving it with one of the salesmen, I sat in the showroom (can't remember why I didn't go with them). A second salesman came over to talk to me, and asked if the car was for me! So not only did he assume that because I'm female I want to drive something the size of a shoebox, but also that I was incapable of test driving a vehicle for my own use!

We didn't buy it. It smelled of dog.

nickelbabe · 29/09/2011 12:25

I like MmeLindor's suggestion - get your DH to go in and mention you lots.

SuzanneJS · 29/09/2011 12:31

I do car buying research on Internet for miles per gallon, insurance and road tax etc then go to salesroom just to have a look at the car, does it have enough storage and what colour does it come in. I never tell them I've done research and am always greeted with 'when would it be convenient for your husband to come in for a test drive?' to which I reply 'I'm widowed and spending his money'
Really does piss me off and j always end up feeling like I should take a salary slip with me to say 'I'm a fucking grown up'

Pippaandpolly · 29/09/2011 12:34

Wow, I have just checked my emails...

At 9.06am:

Dear x,

Thank you for your e-mail,

This is the second e-mail that has been received on this matter in the last couple of days and obviously is something that we take very seriously. It is the intention of the paragraphs to highlight the different areas of a household that would benefit from a water softener and accept that the terminology used to define these is not in keeping with todays society.
It was not in anyway meant to be offensive and steps are being taken to amend the site as soon as possible.

Thank you for your comments

Yours Truly

Dave White

Four Winds Softener Company

At 10.25am:

Dear x,

Just to advise you that our web site has been amended and the relevant text removed and replaced with more suitable wording

Many Thanks

Dave White

Four Winds Softener Company

I have written back to say I appreciate it!

jemjabella · 29/09/2011 12:36

I've just sorted fencing for the garden - from initial communications through to sorting a quote and confirming work start - and at no point was I made to feel like I was second-class to my partner. If they'd insinuated at any point that I needed my partner's permission to complete I'd have told them to sod off.

Sad that I think this is something to credit them for, rather than just standard service.

SardineQueen · 29/09/2011 12:41

HURRAH for Dave Grin

Tortoiseonthehalfshell · 29/09/2011 12:53

Hurrah for Dave, and is this the first time a Feminism topic has made Most Active?

I'm still baffled how Wamster thinks there's a dichotomy between 'thinking marriage is about nice frocks and champagne' and 'expecting to be treated as an autonomous individual with purchasing power'. I wasn't aware, when I pledged my vows, that I was giving up all expectation of being treated as capable of handling my own money.

nickelbabe · 29/09/2011 13:04

you do say "all I have I share with you" though, in whichever wording you used.
which says that you are agreeing (nay promising) to share finance and assets.

Insomnia11 · 29/09/2011 13:17

It doesn't mean that you have to act in tandem for everything though. It's a partnership, you can do things jointly and severally!

nailak · 29/09/2011 13:25

tbh, i would actually value my husbands opinion when buying a car, washing machine, laptop, phone, anything really, and would rather he had his imput in the decision making then i got home and found he disliked it, if i was buying a car i would ask him to testdrive it to see if he could spot anythin i couldn't, two heads are better then one and all that.

and i assume that outside the feminist board many people would be the same. it is not that i cant make my own decisions, it is just i would value the input of those close to me. when i was looking at rentals i brought my dm and dsd, does that disempower me somehow?

i feel that those who would not discuss these purchases are in the minority,
recently a friend of mines husband bought at car, and yes he involved her, he showed her the pics and specs, phoned her after he test drove it, made her read contract and paperwork etc etc. this imo is normal.

Original poster
GooseyLoosey · 29/09/2011 13:28

I agree marriage means sharing, but once we have decided that it's appropriate to buy a new car, why on earth should dh have any say at all in what car I drive. He has his own car - I didn't pick it, he did.

Where we jointly use an item, selection should be joint. Where only one of us uses it, not sure the other has to like it before we can buy it.

I work within a partnership. Each partner is able to spend certain sums of money without the agreement of the other partners. Even if a larger sum needs to be spent, the partnership would agree it in principle, the partners not directly affected would not expect to be involved in the detail of the expenditure. My marriage works on a similar basis!

OP posts:
Original poster
GooseyLoosey · 29/09/2011 13:29

nailak, I agree and would often want dh's input too. However, I dislike the assumption that I need it.

OP posts:
Yeni · 29/09/2011 13:31

When I bought a car I went with DH to the dealership and the salesman kindly changed me from Ms to Mrs on his paperwork and DVLA issued the documents to Mrs. I was furious, but I still haven't got around to changing it back because I am too lazy busy. I wasn't surprised by the salesman's sexism, but I was shocked that the DVLA would accept changes of name from a third party.

stealthsquiggle · 29/09/2011 13:36

We got this attitude from pretty much all the kichen companies we looked at - the assumption (often explicitly stated) was that I wanted lots of toys and DH was in charge of the purse-strings. The one we went with was the least patronising and soon got the hang of the fact that I was project-managing it, I would make the decisions (not that I wouldn't consult DH, of course), and the cheques they got, whilst they came from our joint account, would be signed by me. I still don't think that they believed that the few expensive "statement" elements of the kitchen were all DH's choices though Hmm.

Our local lovely car dealership are not even slightly like the OP describes - they talk to either/both of us in exactly the same honest and direct way. By contrast, I lost count of the number of times the Audi service department entirely discounted my view of faults because I was clearly the little woman who knew nothing. As a result, when the lease on my (company owned) Audi was up, I never even considered an Audi as a replacement.

SardineQueen · 29/09/2011 13:37

nailak that's all fair enough.

What's not fair enough is for car salesmen to address the man when a couple are there even if it is the woman who is doing the talking/buying, for salesmen to assume that a husband will need to have a look to "sign off" his wife's decision etc etc

Apart from anything else I would imagine the opportunity for upset / offence is too large to make this standard. A mrs with a ring could be widowed for all teh salesman knows. Why bring the customer's husband into it, if the customer hasn't brought him up herself?

stealthsquiggle · 29/09/2011 13:38

nailak you miss the point - of course you want your DH's input - and presumably he would want yours - but that is no excuse for the people selling something to assume that you can't act without his "permission" - unless (and even then dubiously) they would say the same to any man going to look at a car on his own.

BullyBeefBadgers · 29/09/2011 13:53

Ive just seen the opposite to this in Mothercare. A male manager was handling the sale of a travel system to a quite well off couple. The expectant father was asking lots of questions but instead of directing them at the manager who was handling the sale, he kept leaning past the manager and asking a girl who was stocking the shelves. Several times the manager explained that she was new, didn't know the product etc but the man wasn't having any of it and after ten minutes they left, threatening to complain!! Shock
He actually said, "I earn ten times what you do mate but no matter how much cash you throw at us gents we still don't get the women's stuff. So why don't you go do some maintenance work and let the experts do their job" ShockShock

wamster · 29/09/2011 14:07

This is not about a husband 'rubber-stamping' anything; it is simply somebody making the -entirely reasonable- assumption that a married couple will want the other's input over a big-ticket item. And, for most people, buying a car is a big-ticket item. Sorry, but it is.

For various reasons, I am getting more anti-marriage as I age, however, if a couple are wed they do send out a clear message that they wish to be viewed as a unit be this financial, emotional, and social.
To pretend otherwise is ridiculous.
The guy was not saying: 'well, of course, you can't buy this without your husband's input'. He's just made the reasonable assumption that when it comes to a big purchase, the other married partner may want a say in the matter.

All the OP had to say was:' No my dh is not having any input' and the guy would have just said: 'OK'. Basically, he was just covering his arse in order to avoid an irate spouse (husband OR wife) saying: 'take the car back!'.

Yeni · 29/09/2011 14:10

BBB's story reminded me of a time when I was a teenager and I went with a male friend to buy some fabric. He asked for a length of fabric to be cut and they saleswoman asked me what I was making. He answered, and told her what he was making and she continued to talk to me about it. I distinctly remember walking off without saying a word and then kicking myself for not saying anything at the time.

wamster · 29/09/2011 14:11

MmeLindor, your suggestion as to how to establish whether this guy was being sexist, i.e. send husband in and see if he says: 'when will your wife be along' is entirely reasonable.

Tortoiseonthehalfshell · 29/09/2011 14:18

I think MmeL also makes a good point that if he wasn't being sexist, he was being crap at his job. What sort of salesperson gives a buyer an easy out?

And AGAIN, several of us have posted that our husbands have not been asked this question. So either it's a reasonable assumption that married couples share the decision and all of our husbands happened to find salespeople who...didn't believe in marriage, or something, or it's bloody sexist.

Original poster
GooseyLoosey · 29/09/2011 14:46

Interesting aside about the nature of marriage wamster. I agree that you have to agree large items of joint expenditure together, However, having agreed, where the item is for use by one party only, it should be entirely their decision. I really can't see, why having done all the relevant research myself, I would really want dh's input. There are times when it would be really valuable, but not when about which car I would like to drive.

Of course, this would never have happened to dh, not least because when he gave his title, the salesman would not have had any insight in to whether he was married or not.

OP posts:
MmeLindor. · 29/09/2011 15:52

@softeners

Water Softeners are on Twitter.

I just tweeted

On that Mumsnet thread, @softeners show how to deal well with customer complaints bit.ly/oZmUYR #feminism