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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

So, the car salesman said to me...

251 replies

GooseyLoosey · 28/09/2011 11:38

"When will your husband be coming in to look at the car?"

It is some time since I had come across such a sexist comment and was at something of a loss to work out how to respond. I left, but was that enough - will he understand why his comment was offensive? Should I have explained to him?

OP posts:
PrideOfChanur · 29/09/2011 08:39

Yes,OP was alone.So the reasonable assumption sales wise is that she was buying the car,and if she wanted another adult to look at it she would say so...

If you have both halves of a couple there it is reasonable to talk to them both unless you are told not to.

HippyHippopotamus · 29/09/2011 08:41

biscuitNibler they always put the man's name first on contracts. The file they had for you would have been under man's name/female's name. its not sexist, its a format that has always been used and i suspect always will be

wamster · 29/09/2011 08:43

PrideOfChanur, you can argue otherwise if you like, however, I think the vast majority of people would agree that it is reasonable for a salesperson to make the assumption that both members of a married couple will be involved in a big-ticket purchase as the default position.

Or do people think that getting married is all about nice frocks and champagne and that it has no relation to how the outside world will view them from that day? Hmm

PrideOfChanur · 29/09/2011 08:46

Hippy,I might not be the only one here who thinks always putting the man's name first on a contract is sexist,having the man's name first on the file is sexist,and the fact that it has always been done like that just means that it has always been sexist....

TheMitfordsMaid · 29/09/2011 08:51

Of course it is sexist, Hippy. When I did our mortgage application I insisted that I went first on all matters as not only was I the one who sorts out such things, I was the highest earner and alphabetically, first.

PrideOfChanur · 29/09/2011 08:55

Ok,wamster! I think we will have to agree to disagree.But I work in a job involving sales,and I remember being told very early on not to assume you know what the customer wants,or how much they can afford to spend,and by extension who else they want involved in their purchase.
The more you assume the more likely you are to get it wrong.Take time to find out.
And I really don't think the commitment to DH,in sickness and in health etc did come with the assumption that we were joined at the hip as far as buying cars goes, forever.If the outside world views us like that then they are wrong.

HippyHippopotamus · 29/09/2011 08:56

pride But it goes back to the days when women essentially became the possession of their husbands on marriage. Things have changed an awful lot since then but the format still sticks now because if you had Mr Smith and Miss Jones buying a house together, you need a system to find the file. It would be ridiculous if you had to check if it was Jones/Smith or Smith/Jones every time you needed something on it.

PrideOfChanur · 29/09/2011 09:07

Things have changed,and thanks to the Married Womens Property Act we are now allowed to keep our own stuff - that was quite a few years ago now,so perhaps the system should've caught up? Alphabetical would work,and still allow you to find the file.
Anyway,if you are checking the file,either you are remembering you want to check the Smith/Jones file,in which case it makes no difference who is Smith and who is Jones,or you are responding to a client enquiry in which case they tell you whose name is first on the contract - easy!

HippyHippopotamus · 29/09/2011 09:36

yes, alphabetical would work. i suggest you write to every solicitors' office and ask them. good luck with that, they're not known for embracing change

i've read most of the thread now and it seems quite a few of you are actively looking for things to shout about. i dare say i will be accused of 'needing to be educated' but you know what, i'm happy, my husband's happy and so are our children. i've bought a few big ticket items over the years and have never experienced the issues reported above. Perhaps it comes down to the impression you give the salesperson, but you know what, i've never been in this topic before and i never will again

MrsClown · 29/09/2011 09:52

Hippy, you are very lucky that you have never experienced what others have. To be honest I bought a new car from a garage not that long ago and did not experience any sexism. However, I do know and accept that lots of people do. Its nothing to do with the impression you give the salesperson its how they feel as individuals.

I wouldnt say you need to be educated but you do need to accept that just because you have never experienced something it does not mean other women dont. By the way, my husband, me and my children are all happy but we do take note of what is happening outside. I have emailed the water softener company by the way. I couldnt believe it.

Hippy - you should come on this thread again, everyone is entitled to an opinion. I dont always agree with everyone but can always give my own opinion and thoughts - I dont get offended just because someone disagrees with me. Please dont be offended. Your last message sounded a bit defensive.

HazleNutt · 29/09/2011 10:22

Pippa, excellent email. Let us know if/what they reply.

Wamster, I asked DH who has bought 3 cars and a motorbike while being married - not once has anybody asked when the wife will come to see it.

wamster · 29/09/2011 10:39

OK, agree to disagree. That's fair enough. I see that, yes, he could be a sexist pig, however, he may not be and there is a valid argument against that, too. I'd prefer to give somebody the benefit of the doubt, though.

SardineQueen · 29/09/2011 10:49

Skipped a load of posts but some people on this thread seem to be missing some quite salient points, which are

Some people do not consider a car to be "big ticket" - some people have lots of money and some people change their cars very regularly

Some of the people who do this are (shock horror) women

It is totally unreasonable to ask a woman who happens to have a ring on her wedding finger when her lord and master will be in to rubber stamp her decision. They would not ask this question of a man.

Incidentally I encountered a lot of really random sexism when we were buying our new car. Car sales people are renowned for it so I see no reason to give them the benefit of the doubt.

SardineQueen · 29/09/2011 10:51

"f the person tells you: ' my dh is not involved in this', you accept it and concentrate on them."

hahahahaha

Buying a car
I ask the questions, salesperson talks to DH
DH keeps saying "really my wife is the one who knows about all this" and still the salesperson addresses DH. When I ask something he answers dismissively and quickly before returning his attention to DH. We decided to go elsewhere. I was livid.

VivaLeBeaver · 29/09/2011 10:55

My bloody vet addresses all vaccination reminders to DH. Even though all the animals are mine, its always me who takes them and DH has never set foot in the vets.

pallymama · 29/09/2011 10:56

They have changed the water softener site. :)

SardineQueen · 29/09/2011 10:58

"So what if the OP was alone, the dh may not have been able to see the car at the allotted time for whatever reason. It's not unreasonable for the salesman to assume that he'd like to see it later."

This is ridiculous.

Your name is mrs, maybe you have a ring.
You could be divorced, you could be separated, you could be widowed FGS. Of course the salesperson should not make the assumptions that a. you have a husband at home and b. you are not able to buy a car / going to buy a car without getting him to look at it. The potential for really upsetting / fucking off the purchaser is huge.

HazleNutt · 29/09/2011 11:19

Oh wow they have changed the site. I was totally expecting that they will dismiss Pippa's email as "oh one of those crazy feminists.."

StewieGriffinsMom · 29/09/2011 11:22

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Poledra · 29/09/2011 11:28

I have pointed out to a car salesman before that his sexism had lost his garage a sale. DH and I went (with DD2 in her car seat) to look at cars. Visited many garages, at each one the first thing we were asked was 'Who is the car for?' When I said it was for me, every salesman except this one addressed their questions to me (even BMW, which I expected to be one of the more 'sexist' makes, IYSWIM Blush - taught me a bit about my preconceptions!).

The VW salesman addressed everything to DH. DH repeatedly said 'Don't ask me, I can't drive, my wife will make the decision.' He eventually got up, picked up DD2's car seat and walked away. When he thought I was getting to the end of my discussions with the salesman, he wandered back over and the salesman stopped talking to me and started talking to DH again.

I later got a call from VW saying that they had 'to let the salesman go' and was there anything they could do to help me in choosing my new car?

Reader, I bought a Saab Grin

SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius · 29/09/2011 11:37

Wamster - I'd agree with you about both people in a couple having a say in 'big ticket' purchases IF I believed that, had it been the OP's dh who'd been buying the car, he would have been asked when his dw was coming to look at it. Sadly I suspect that that's not the case, the majority of the time.

When dh and I bought our first estate car, we both went to test drive it, and the salesman seemed surprised that I wanted to test drive it too. Dh got to have a nice long blast along the dual carriageway - I got to potter round the industrial estate.

becstarsky · 29/09/2011 11:41

Result on the water softener webpage! But clearly more than a few car dealerships need to check this thread. Just a simple change for their sales team to make, won't cost them anything, and they'd get a real competitive advantage.

Original poster
GooseyLoosey · 29/09/2011 11:51

I am really surprised at the view: "Don't want to have people assuming that your dh/dw will be involved in making a big-ticket item, don't get married."

I have problems with this on several levels:

(a) my domestic arrangements are my own. The salesman has no business asking me about them. If I needed dh to go and look at the car I would say so - don't need to be asked about it.

(b) I have complete autonomy in spending our money. DH is well aware that I spend money carefully and would not spend more than we have to spend. I do not need permission to spend what I know we can afford.

(c) We had discussed my buying a new car and he was happy with that decision - he couldn't then care a less which car I actually buy. That is my choice not his - in any way. I don't need him to approve me decision.

OP posts:
SardineQueen · 29/09/2011 11:57

That water softener page is so much better! It now reads like a normal advert Grin and is much the better for it.

MmeLindor. · 29/09/2011 11:58

I do think this is sexism.

I worked in sales. One of the first things that you are taught is to get the customer to sign on the dotted line as soon as possible. You do not hand your customer and excuse to say, "Thanks, I will come back with my husband".

The OP could test it though. Send your DH in to look at cars, have him mention his wife a few times and see if the salesman asks if he wants his wife to see the car.

Either the salesman is sexist, or he is bad at his job.

Good on the water softener company for changing their website. I am quite impressed that they did that with no fuss. I wondered if their website was taken from a German blurb - it sounds like the kind of thing a German company would write, and they used to be called "Manfreuder Mouldings". Sounds very German.

If you are still reading, Four Winds, well done. Not needing a water softener at present, but if I do, I will look you up.