When do you give up????

[northernruth]

Am a member and a mod on another forum. Two posts this week have made me seething mad. One a post asking for help with sex drive in which the OP admitted that her DP has forced her "to have sex when I have said no" and that "sometimes he hurt me" but "all that is in the past and I forgive him".

Obviously a couple of us waded in crying rape and asking her to get help/ advice at which there was a big hoo har about how we "weren't helping" and how "the OP wants to move on" and we "needed to be more supportive".

WTF?

Then the latest is that the forum's resident smug cow someone came on saying that she'd just watched porn with her partner for the first time in 12 years and she "couldn't understand why we haven't done it before".

Honestly, when do you give up? by which I mean, are there times when you don't even bother wading in because you know your words will fall on deaf ears or you'll be dismissed as a "ranting feminist"?

northern - you're doing a good job.
People become unbelievably atavistic, fearful and defensive when there's discussion of these - which shows how amazingly vulnerable they feel, I think.
As I said above, I think discussion of porn taps into everyone's insecurities and fear. It's probably the most fearful people of all who bluster away saying it's all cool, everyone who doubts this is frigid, censorious and fearful. or whatever. I really do think these people become the most aggressive because they're the most fearful. Horrible to be on the receiving end, but much as they've ostensibly dismissed what you've said, they'll go away and think about it.

As I said before, trust me, I know!

To be honest, I suspect it's the women whose partners are users of porn or who have convinced themselves that it's ok to use it within a relationship. They're the ones who are being defensive. And they are being most "mean" about the other feminist poster who was more specifice and vocal than me (altho I did link to those real life stories because I think that's the kind of thing that makes people challenge their own preconceptions of porn stars)

SGM, thanks for the offer, but it's a forum row. Not sure I have that many supporters in terms of the subject matter but I do have a few "supporters" in a personal sense so will be fine.

Did manage to pick one of them up on her grammar tho which was very satisfying......

Maybe it is OK to use porn in a relationship, maybe it's just OK to use porn.
Maybe we need a clearer definition of porn/erotica, etc.
Maybe everyone should be clearer, more confident, honest and respectful in trying to make their arguments clear to other people.
It's really strange, though, how in these sorts of arguments people become inarticulate and abusive so quickly. Really, really strange.

Also odd how they think I"m digging myself a hole still arguing. They don't think THEYRE digging themselves a hole still defending it.......

why do you feel compelled to change or challenge her pov?

as much as it irks you considering someone else "smug cow" but then complaining you are considered "ranting feminist".well smacks of okay for you to dish out names but hell not accept names back

its great to be an active and aware person,but with that comes a undertsanding that other will nort ,do not shre your enthusiasm or interst

when do you give up?
well,that's your individal call,but don't expect others to share your ideologies or enthusuasm - and dont jump to asumption they are smug cow for not getting you

Perhaps, at some point, they'll reach that conclusion, northern. But it won't be at any time during the 'discussion' that you're presently having, IYSWIM...
So to answer your original question, I think you have to stand back a bit... Choose your battles, etc. Very few people will suddenly turn around and say 'I see what you're saying, I've been a tosser' (though, obviously, for porn users, that is the logical conclusion. How could it be otherwise? )That's how things go.

I don't assume that, I think she is smug for a number of reasons, her most recent nauseating post was about how she went out on Saturday night and was "one of the slimmest there" and how much male attention she got. Lots of other things too. I don't assume she's smug for using porn. But I take the point about the name calling. Already said it's not the name I don't like, but the use of it (ranting feminist) to avoid engaging in debate.

I feel compelled to challenge her POV because I believe that porn is damaging to society and to women, in the same way I would challenge racism or other discriminatory behaviour.

Off to bed now anyway, have already taken one beating tonight so don't need another ta.

stop being so got at you're happy to dish it but not hear a contrary pov
no one is beating you up
behave

Sorry Scottish, they are - you would know what I meant if you read it. Off to bed now anyway.

'no one is beating you up'

How kind of you, scottish, to rectify the deficit you perceive there.

your dishing it too and perhaps here is a wee call to affirmative likeminded folk

Dittany's engaging with trolls used to drive me mad sometimes. I used to wish she's just drop it. She always argued the benefits of speaking to the lurkers and not allowing misogynistic and damaging stuff to stand unchallenged. You probably won't change their minds but you'll make them think about things rather than just accepting them as normal.

no lrd shes over here to a favourable audience,talking about another thread. spare the humphy face in dint think shes being beat up.think shes here for a bit of approbation and poor you

And you'll always get people who will attack anything they perceive as feminist. Only they know why.

northern - not another beating, to be sure, but if this woman's benchmark for success is related to slimness, let her get one with it. You don't have to join in!
I've not idea how slim you are, nor do I care, I just think you're blessed if you have more meaningful criteria for personal worth than body size.

I know I could arrive home after various nights out tallying up whether I had the biggest/smallest arse/nose/feet/open pores - and I could find myself at either end of the scale on different occasions. (So could you, probably.)
I wouldn't be too exercised by the arguments or opinions of someone who actually did this, though. To me, it would be about as useful, satisfying and constructive as arguing/reasoning with a pile of rotting vegetables on my lovely compost heap.
Why do you care what this woman thinks? You clearly have very different priorities.
She is entirely entitled to hers. Why take issue with them, however, ludicrous they are?

She's talking about another forum

thats a truism of any ideologically held pov.for each fervent supported,there wil be a naysayer.that's replicated across mn,not just fem topics

you could swop words about and transpose into feeding topics
And you'll always get people who will attack anything they perceive as breastfeeding/formula feeding. Only they know why

its a ov you can apply to anything

Maybe so. If someone consistently posted on a board for discussing FF, criticising FF, you might start to wonder about them.

depends whether its a ff forum or a forum discussing ff merits
there is a difference
and that will influence answers

Either way, they'd tend to look like a fool IMO.

not at all the feeding topics here on mn are polarised but thats not an indication of lack of rigour or anyone being fool.its an indication of not all views are universal.views are challenged

here on fem topics as with any topic,exoect a challenge or rebuke.that's the point.if one only seeks a certain pov on an open forum then maybe one is misplaced

A forum entitled Formula Feeding perhaps. I tend to agree with you LRD.

this inst a feminist forum,its fem topics on an open discursive forum
there is a big difference
and this has been considerably explored over past few days