The departure of dittany

[Pan]

I only know that she has left, and in her post she didn't say much as to why, though some people can speculate and imagine why.

Quite a few days ago (last weekend I think) there were threads that pinpointed the lack of consideration that MNHQ has toward the sort of trolls that infest the FS section from time to time - different in nature and purpose to your average troll that infects MN from time to time.

It may well be that d. is in contact with regular posters whom she trusts. I don't know.

What I do know is that d. was a fabulous source of invigoration and illumination to a lot of posters, myself included, though we didn't always agree with her.

I would like a review from MNHQ of their current "talk guidlines" policy, in order that the FS is provided with a consideration that recognises the particular vulnerability that it experiences.

D. left for her own reasons - but this presents itself as a sort of 'test case' for MN to respond sensitively.

Would anyone agree and post here in support of this?

I think that's semantics to be honest. There have been a number of trolls in this section who have spent their time derailing threads, stalking posters (which is one of the reasons dittany left) and generally gleefully making people's lives a misery.

Do you really think that's acceptable? Whatever you think of feminism, i hope you'd agree that it's utterly vile to target individual posters and make them feel exposed and uncomfortable.

No, the 'threatened much' wasn't aimed at you. But that's why people do it.

anyone who maliciously targets or stalk yes should face sanctions,and mnhq cooperate with police if it warrants it.

should mn moderate fem topics differently? No

I'm afraid I think this notion that the feminist section is 'about' feminism but isn't a feminist discussion space, is absolute bullshit and, in reality, totally meaningless.

If that is what MNHQ would like the section to be, I think there needs to be a header at the top, explaining that this is not a feminist section in the commonly understood way. It is only honest to warn posters that the board is as welcoming to misogyny as it is to feminism - in the interests of 'debate' and light moderation of course.

Fair enough, MN can do what they like with their website - I just think it is only fair to make it clear that people who post from a feminist perspective, especially if they are radfems, will be attacked, slagged off on the rest of the board, misrepresented, misinterpreted, and possibly stalked.

I also think that we need a header making it clear that male posters who joke about rape and who try to get women to talk about rape experiences are welcomed. Women generally expect feminist spaces to be supportive when it comes to the issue of rape - they are not expecting to stumble across male posters having a laugh about it. Nor are they expecting victim blaming and rape apology.

I think we also need a header warning that aspects of the board are triggering - that there are posters who gaslight, call feminists insane, express the view that feminists are emotionally damaged and not quite rational. It seems only fair to warn people what they are in for.

Indeed when you look at it that way, calling the section feminism/women's rights, is a bit of a misnomer really. Now wonder there is so much confusion, what with the feminists thinking that they are posting in a feminist section, and lots of other posters thinking that they are posting in a section where it is fine to derail feminist discussion, question the justification for feminism in the first place, witter on about women lying about rape and spout that feminists hate men and are insane whenever they express a non-mainstream (ie feminist) view.

Recipe for disaster really - which is what we've got.

Another thing we need is a little sticky explaining that is is the job of regular posters to report all the offensive and personally attacking stuff that the current set up encourages on the board, and that they may spend as much time reporting posts, as they do actually posting. It is also their job to keep threads on topic no matter how hard someone tries to make the thread about something misogynistic or about themselves (and no matter how much the regulars find this a waste of time and in the way of actually getting to discuss in a constructive way themselves).

I'm sure there are other stickys that we could do with but those are the ones that seem the most obvious at the moment.

The section is a mess.

LOL Beachcomber.

I think that's about right...

Maybe just a sticky saying that this section attracts a lot of anti-feminist loons who won't shut up but aren't particularly entertaining, so please be patient, might cover it.

I think you should start a thread to discuss what would be a good disclaimer to make it clear it is not a feminist section in the accepted sense, Beachcomber. There needs to be something.

It's all very hard work and makes me want to fuck off to a dedicated feminism board and not come back but that rather defeats the object doesn't it?

I'm very tired tonight, perhaps it will all seem better in the morning

I have been thinking about starting a thread exactly like that Sybil. I might do - I just don't know if I can be arsed with the aggro and subsequent slagging off that it will probably lead to. Plus a couple of trolls will come on and call me insane or deluded or a liar or a man hater or something. There may well be accusations that I want to run the feminist section/silence debate/stop men from posting.

Ah , feck it. I will but I warn you, I'm going to C&P my above post because it is what I genuinely think.

no,mnhq has been clear this isnt a dedicated feminist space.its a topic about feminism in a open discursive forum

if you want a safe dedicated space you want find it here on mn.and the rub is dedicated to what and whom?frankly a lot of the irks on fem topics thus far have been it has had a cant say that here vibe

so we're clear, it's not a feminist space.
But people coming here are under the impression it is. So there needs to be an explanation at the top that if they, say, want to talk about their experiences of assault, thinking this will be a supportive place to do so, someone might post that they are probably lying and this is considered fine. And it is as you say considered 'words on a screen', SM, so they are not to get too sensitive about it.

Exactly Sybil - that's the ticket!

some people argue its a fem safe space
many dont agree
hence the debates

I don't think we are arguing for a safe space - just a non misogynist one.

A safe space is quite obviously not possible on a forum like this.

explanation of what?do you seek to limit or censor they types of posts, want to steer thread a certain way?as inevitability when disagreement occurs what then?revert to default what about the menz,troll,mra..?

beach youre right safe space is misnomer on open thread,but it has been stridently proposed also.

I wonder if I went on the conception forum and argued that only insane people agree with IVF, or went on multicultural families and spouted racist views, if I would be welcomed for opening up the debate, or if I would be about as popular as a turd in a swimming pool?

Whaddya reckon?

You didn't respond to my point about the Doghouse and the SN section sm. Do you regularly go over there and tell them they're talking shit or do you just spoil us with your contributions in the feminism section?

Surely there must be other areas of the board that you don't agree with? Cats? Hamsters? Arts and crafts? Adoption? There are a whole host of places where you can go and tell the regulars that they're wrong but you don't. Why is that?

may I ask you something SM? Are you a feminist?

Beachcomber Wed 21-Sep-11 20:30:10. Absolutely. Every fucking word. Including the stuff about the responsibility being shifted onto posters to endlessly report to be told the same 'we're onto it' stuff over and fucking over.

It so needs to made clear that whilst the title may be 'feminism/women's rights', it is like no other boards that deal with feminism/women's rights in the universe. It isn't fair to mislead.

i also think women need to be circumspect when posting harrowing accounts,unfortunately there are unsavoury types who do intrude and comment.however,if you post on an open foum its a risk.and arisk that cannot be eradicated.not safe space,not necessarily amongst like minded folk either. be aware the words on a screen are seen by many,can be out on twitter and reproduced elsewhere

and this has come up on mn before harrowing topics and trolls

posters need to be circumspect and savvy.feminist topic doesnt =like minded women.do protect and maintain personal safety, and sanity

I might try hanging out in the single parents section banging on about how important marriage is.

The I'm gonna pop over to going back to work and tell everyone I think they should be SAHMs.

After that I'll post in G and T about how most parents who think their child is advanced are liars deluded.

I'm going to make me some friends and influence some people. And if by any chance things turn out more in the turd/swimming pool scenario, I'll just post at every opportunity on the rest of the board about how intolerant and mean those sections are.