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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

"Honour killing"

366 replies

Greythorne · 07/09/2011 19:27

Even with quotation marks, I really loathe the use of "honour killing".

Talk about misuse of the word "honour"

www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/sep/07/shafilea-parents-arrested-suspected-honour-killing

OP posts:
nailak · 09/09/2011 20:47

i dont understand what you want me to say, i am not looking to derail thread, i am looking to develop my understanding of the issues, through relating my experiences and asking questions concerning areas i dont understand.

unfortunately, rather then helping me understand, you are making me feel attacked and unwelcome in this discussion.

i dont understand what anyone would gain by derailing the subject.

so why does femininsm say that men make the choices they do to be violent against women, and what is the solution?

(is that the right topic now)

BobBanana · 09/09/2011 20:48

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dittany · 09/09/2011 20:50

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

nailak · 09/09/2011 20:53

so what can we do to help these women and change the mens perceptions

BobBanana · 09/09/2011 20:54

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Wamster · 09/09/2011 20:54

Oh for goodness sake, beachcomber, if you're going to quote me do it properly, I said that I doubt that I would have the guts to do it myself and would not blame any woman for failing to stand up to the regime.

BobBanana · 09/09/2011 20:56

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Wamster · 09/09/2011 20:57

Can you not recognise the difference between knowing what should be done on an intellectual level yet finding it very difficult to do as you know you might get hurt?

I've found this a lot here, though, a blank refusal to accept that head and heart are not always in sync.

Beachcomber · 09/09/2011 21:02

I did quote you properly.

Then I added what I understand.

Don't worry, Wamster, you are not alone. I don't want to go and speak out to the honour killers either. I don't have the guts and I don't want to die.

I will stand up and be counted in my own little way on here, and in Europe (I live in France) where is is relatively safe to do so however.

It 'ain't much but it feels better than nothing, and I believe in the revolution. I don't know that I will get to see it, but that's ok.

Wamster · 09/09/2011 21:06

Well, maybe, Beachcomber, but I'll be honest and for those people who do go out there to do just that, I do have the utmost respect for them and to be totally upfront: any petty irritations I had with any member here would immediately go up in a puff of smoke if they suddenly announced they were going to do that.

I do admire people who have the courage and faith to give up their life for a good cause.

Beachcomber · 09/09/2011 21:25

It's the teaspoon thing though isn't it?

Every action counts, every time we speak out counts.

You know, I'm of a generation that has been told that there is no point to feminism and that there is no need for feminism.

And yet women die on the whim of a man. Here and all over the world.

Well fuck that for a game of soldiers. I've got my teaspoon and all we need is for enough of is to join the cause.

Beachcomber · 09/09/2011 21:30

Here you go;

Don't say we don't make it easier for you folks on here

edd1337 · 09/09/2011 21:32

You might not see a revolution in your lifetime. Your best bet it to teach the children

Beachcomber · 09/09/2011 21:50

I think my best bet is to have my own little private revolution actually.

And bang teaspoons with my sisters Grin.

Beachcomber · 09/09/2011 22:03

Just a word to nailak - I don't know how familiar you are with this part of MN, so I don't know if you are aware that we are having a bit of trouble with disruptive posters who don't appear to have much genuine interest in discussing feminism from a feminist perspective ATM.

That makes us kind of defensive (more than we are anyway I mean Grin).

I think your posts have got kinda caught up in that and I hope you are still reading and still thinking. Threads like this are never going to be easy anyway.

GothAnneGeddes · 09/09/2011 23:39

One way of teaspooning is to look out for organisation that specifically deal with honour based crimes.

I can't link from my phone, but Southall Black Sisters are an amazing group and in desperate need of funding. If everyone on this thread went and donated some money to them, that would be a very positive outcome to this thread.

GothAnneGeddes · 09/09/2011 23:40

One way of teaspooning is to look out for organisation that specifically deal with honour based crimes.

I can't link from my phone, but Southall Black Sisters are an amazing group and in desperate need of funding. If everyone on this thread went and donated some money to them, that would be a very positive outcome to this thread.

GothAnneGeddes · 09/09/2011 23:40

One way of teaspooning is to look out for organisation that specifically deal with honour based crimes.

I can't link from my phone, but Southall Black Sisters are an amazing group and in desperate need of funding. If everyone on this thread went and donated some money to them, that would be a very positive outcome to this thread.

StewieGriffinsMom · 10/09/2011 07:48

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ThePosieParker · 10/09/2011 09:20

The difference between an 'honour' killing and a beat your wife cause you've had too much to drink killing is that, and I shall tread carefully, not one wife beating man expects anyone to accept or understand his reasons, the state does not punish his wife for her actions that anger him either.....he is in all cases wrong.

ThePosieParker · 10/09/2011 09:25

So the 'honour' killing is done for different motives, but also the same motives. Control. The wife beater/murderer is the same evil as the the 'honour' or religious killer, he's the same controlling nasty piece of work but he usually operates alone not with his sons or wife to kill his daughter. And I'm not saying for one minute that couples never torture their children if they're white and atheist, but it's not culturally acceptable. There was a Muslim school up north that routinely hit, kicked and punched children, for no reason (not that there could be a good one) and noone complained, not one single parent.

AyeBelieveInTheHumanityOfMen · 10/09/2011 09:34

"not one wife beating man expects anyone to accept or understand his reasons"

Well, that is tosh, Posie, otherwise those men wouldn't plead not guilty and come out with a load of guff in mitigation. And you wouldn't get half-wits bleating on about "consequences".

dittany · 10/09/2011 11:33

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alemci · 10/09/2011 11:57

My mum used to work supporting bi lingual children. Often they were looked after by the grandmother whilst the parents were at work. One of the things the children told my mother was that they were burned with a hot spoon if they were 'naughty'. This was a while back and maybe its not true who knows.

nailak · 10/09/2011 13:26

it could be true, but i am left still not understanding the internalisation of patriarchal oppression.

tbh the thing that puts me off feminism is the way people react when i ask questions, like i i am trying to understand a concept, and voice objections, then i am a troll, but at the same time i know other people must have thought of these objections and there are femenist counter arguements, that i would like to know, in order that i can be intellectually convinced.

another islamic based organisation that supports muslim women in all sorts of situations is solace a lot of their work is with abused women, or women are having difficulties due to control by their husbands, and lack of support.

i realise non muslims would be unlikely to want to get involved in or support this organisation.