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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Porn - I use it and feel bad - help convince me porn is wrong

737 replies

GuiltyPornUser · 10/04/2011 09:50

Firstly, sorry if this is the wrong place to post this, although I thought it may be the most appropriate. I'm a married man, and I use porn fairly regularly. It's not something I feel has a massive negative effect on my life, but I feel bad about it. I'm not someone who specially goes out of my way to buy porn, (I've never paid for it), but with the internet, it's only ever a few clicks away.

I want to be convinced that it's wrong. I recently read Andrea Dworkin's book on pornography, but it hasn't stopped me. I appreciate that a lot of stuff on the web is very brutal and degrading to women, but a lot of the stuff is less obviously so.

My DW wouldn't be happy with me using porn, and I want to stop. I want to be convinced that it's wrong, and how I go about stopping using porn, when it's so easy to find on the internet.

There may be some here who think porn is acceptable and I'm just suffering from some almost religious guilt.

I'd really welcome some advice here, because my DW could find out one day and I want to stop.

OP posts:
TheAtomicBum · 12/04/2011 14:45

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Houston_(pornographic_actress)

Sorry, 620.

RitaLynn · 12/04/2011 14:47

I wanted to post this

I think it's really good and more palatable to men

computermouse · 12/04/2011 14:49

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Inmydreamimawesternhero · 12/04/2011 14:53

Hmm - I'm sorry but I won't be responding to a 26 year old male with the user name 'TheAtomicBum' - Hmm

Beachcomber · 12/04/2011 14:55

RitaLynn a question similar to the one you asked me here came up on the porn documentary thread. I'm going to c&p my post here if you don't mind because it goes some way to answering your question. The original question was about my referring to a gang bang scene in a documentary on porn as rape - the presumption was that the woman in the scene had consented and yet I referred to it as rape. Another poster asked me why.

For the record I think all porn is harmful - I think it is intrinsically harmful to a woman to have sex with strangers for money. I think this due to reading I have done about prostitution. Let's remember, porn is filmed prostitution.

Anyway, this is what I said on the other thread;

"Your question is interesting because it is looking at consent.

If we take the example of the woman in the gang bang scene in the documentary, we could say that we know almost nothing about this woman, right? We don't see her or hear her views. We can only assume that she had agreed to be filmed in this way because generally in most porn, the women have at some point agreed to be filmed and have those images distributed.

It is my understanding that the 'consent' documents in porn are about the right of the producer to film and distribute the images.

The women do also tend to fill out that hideous form with the list of acts that they agree to submit to.

For some people, the above means that the woman has consented.

For a lot of feminists, the above doesn't mean shit. These are the reasons why;

The woman is being coerced, thereby consent is not freely given and is null. Women in porn are coerced by money, emotional blackmail and abuse, force, violence, drugs, etc.

Women are often told that certain things will happen in a scene and then when they get there, this is changed. It is difficult for the woman to back out - we saw evidence of this in the documentary. The woman is no longer freely consenting however.

Women may 'consent' to do a gang bang - then once they start doing it, they may wish to stop - it is almost impossible for a woman to stop what is happening. Do you ever see a man asking a woman if she is still consenting to dick/slap/verbal abuse/painful penetration/ number X in a porn film?

A lot of woman go into the state of dissociation during a scene - they separate from themselves and go numb - they are in a state of shock and separating from their bodies in order to get through the ordeal. Women in this state are no longer consenting but they are unable to do anything about it.

Then we have the issue that so many (nearly all) women in porn are damaged by past abuse and/or abandonment issues. Porn merchants purposely seek out women like this in order to exploit them. One could say that these women are 'coerced' by their emotional damage to act in self destructive ways. These are certainly women who are very vulnerable to coercion.

On the basis of the above, I take the view that women do not give meaningful consent to the acts in porn. This view is expressed by many of the men who work in porn - they speak about how 'you can get some whores to do anything by using method x, y or z'. They are perfectly aware that there is not meaningful consent for what they are doing.

Therefore I think that the vast vast majority of porn is made without meaningful consent from the women, therefore it is rape. I have exactly the same thoughts about prostitution. Indeed, for me porn is filmed prostitution.

On this thinking the woman in the gang bang scene is being raped.

A lot of women who are out of porn say exactly the above and they are able to look back and say that they were being raped. I think what I do from listening to those women."

TheAtomicBum · 12/04/2011 14:58

Inmydreamimawesternhero - that just says you've got nothing else to say on the subject, if you've turned to insulting the genitalia I was born with and the name I chose.

Inmydreamimawesternhero · 12/04/2011 15:06

I'm just wondering what a 26 year old male is doing on Mumsnet, and in particular a thread about pornography? I might disagree with the feminists on here sometimes, but I respect their views and feel they should have a female only section where they can discuss sensitive issues with other females. That's not the popular opinion - it's just my opinion.

TheAtomicBum · 12/04/2011 15:14

I may be a 26 year old male - but I have 2 children and a mortgage with my DP. I therefore use MNet for the same reason most of you do. I don't normally frequent the feminist threads because, well, as you said they are traditionally female only areas.

I saw this thread in the active threads, as a man who has asked for people to convince him that porn is wrong. Since (obviously) I morrally disagree with porn, I decided that this was a thread I had some valid opinions on.

Regardless of whether my sexual organs are internal or external, I was still in her arguing for the right of women not to be degraded in this industry. I didn't think many would have a problem with that, and announced in my first post on here that I was not a woman so that I did not mislead anyone.

Beachcomber · 12/04/2011 15:14

Inmydreamimawesternhero are you ignoring the question I asked you upthread or did you miss it?

Also can I just clarify - your argument is that the women in porn must love it because they are not ugly fat birds, correct?

My original question was;

"Inmydreamimawesternhero do you hold racist views as well as sexist ones?

I'm only asking because the porn industry, you seem so enthusiastic about, is rife with racism and racist stereotypes so it seems like a given."

Unrulysun · 12/04/2011 15:17

So inmydream if that's true what are you doing on a thread about porn started by a man?

Inmydreamimawesternhero · 12/04/2011 15:20

Fair enough - and yes, you did admit you were male. It's just being a female I'd rather talk to other females about issues like this. But that's my problem - I'll leave, you stay. This thread was started by a man afterall.

Inmydreamimawesternhero · 12/04/2011 15:22

Xposts

BC - let me read your post again.

TheAtomicBum · 12/04/2011 15:24

It's OK - I've said what I came here to say. I'll be off then. I didn't want to make anyone feel uncomfortable.

Beachcomber · 12/04/2011 15:26

TheAtomicBum this is not a female only section. It is a feminist section. Everybody is welcome.

Your posts have been a positive and relevant contribution to this thread.

AyeRobot · 12/04/2011 15:27

Thread's gone strange. Is that really carminburana getting squirrely about who posts what on the feminism board?

TAB, I thought your posts were totally On Topic and appreciate your input. And the rest of you - you astound me with your patience.

K999 · 12/04/2011 15:29

TheAtomicBum I don't think you should feel like you have to leave the thread either. Surely, all opinions are welcome, whether you agree with them or not.

RitaLynn · 12/04/2011 15:37

Wasn't the OP told to leave?

Inmydreamimawesternhero · 12/04/2011 15:40

BC, I'm not an expert on pornography - I've used it occasionally in the past and will probably use it in the future, I'm not into hardcore pornography and consider myself to be completely normal(ish). I can't say I've noticed racism in pornography, in fact the only porn I've ever used has had White people in it ( does that matter? )

And my argument is not that women are enjoying it because they're not fat and ugly - my argument is that maybe attractive women go into porn because they know they'll earn decent amounts of money. In porn the woman is the 'star' the men are just extras.

glastocat · 12/04/2011 15:44

In answer to the OP only. No, do your own research. We are all responsible for our own education, and asking the women on here to do the work for you is pathetic, to put it mildly.

EggyFucker · 12/04/2011 15:46

I am really jealous of women abused by men on camera porn actresses

They are all much prettier and younger than me, and that is why I don't like it

I wish I could do it too, so I am bitter

yup

RitaLynn · 12/04/2011 15:48

I don't know why I'm sticking up for the OP, but glastocat, that's exactly what the OP was doing. He came on here, he was given links. He didn't ask anyone to come round to his to read it out aloud to him.

I don't get the animosity towards someone doing their own research

TheAtomicBum · 12/04/2011 15:56

I think what BC was getting at with the racism point is that pornography normally categoried by race and various other preferences. Not only do you have categories for, "teen," "MILF" & "Lesbian" etc, but also you have Asian, "Ebony" (Black), Mediteranian etc.

And to many, only focussing on one race is racist, isn't it? If an employer only employed white people, would there not be a huge fuss kicked up about it? So, yes, the fact that there is only white people in the magazines or videos that you have seen is important.

RitaLynn · 12/04/2011 16:00

I think the racism point that Dines makes is that interracial sex is demeaning to women, because white women having sex with black men (it's rarely the other way round), in an institutionally racist setting such as the US is racist

Inmydreamimawesternhero · 12/04/2011 16:03

Sorry but that's rubbish - Where sex is concerned you have a preferred type. I would only have sex with a very particular type of person - therefore I'd look for that in pornography. If you join a dating site you are asked questions about the sort of people you want to meet.

And Employing someone for a job is not the same as wanting to fuck them. Are you that naive?

K999 · 12/04/2011 16:07

Actually I once had a job where the boss admitted to me that the reason he gave me the job was because he wanted "to screw the pants off me" ( his words).....Shock