I've got quite a simple question that I just can't answer - why would a woman not be a feminist?

[MarionCole]

Surely everyone wants equality of opportunity, don't they?

Would appreciate the opinions of those feminists far wiser than I.

thank you, inmaculada

• angry woman - very true.

Isn't it odd how "man hater" is such an insult and something that you are so desperate to avoid being seen as.

Not you you. women generally.

I haven't really thought about it before but that's quite bad, isn't it?

I'm not a man hater, I'm not a man hater, look

If you don't play ball, you are a man hater and being a man hater is a terrible thing to be.

What a good way to keep women under control.

I left school and started university believing that feminism would be a default belief for all women. I simply assumed that all women would want to live in an equable society, where rights and privileges are not dispensed solely on the basis of genitalia.

Turns out I was in a minority of one, that none of my friends since school (bear in mind I am now in my 40s) have classed themselves as feminists. It has become something I no longer discuss with anyone as it seems to upset people too much.

I did post on another thread, that yesterday in a voluntary class on feminism at the local University, there was 4 men and 4 women. I was the only one who objected to women being referred to as c*nts.

The other women (girls) said;

"Well we have got one".

They couldn't understand that HAVING a vagina didn't mean that's all women are. It was quite sad.

DH also thinks there are sectors of women who like the status quo, like the idea that they are 'looked after', that men will buy them drinks and hold the door open for them.

Your DH is right.

Lots of women like that.

I hate that.

When women bang on about wanting to have things bought for them, and that the man should always pay when they go out to dinner etc.

imo, you can't have it both ways.

You've got your own money. use it!

I am not sure if this is an unfeminist view but I think there is nothing strong or independent about judging a man on the size of his wallet and having a 'what have you done for me lately' attitude.

No. Far better to pull out your own purse and show that you are a financial equal.

I think sometimes it is a case that these women have, or have developed, "qualities" that are valued by the patriarchy and so would have a lot to lose if feminism achieved its aims.

Odd how it's a hideously heinous thing to be a woman who appears to hate men and we go out of our way to make sure no man ever thinks we do hate them, but a man who acts like he hates women is just accepted as normal

I think it's ignorance too, though, in answer to the OP. Ignorance that there is an issue at all; and then ignorance based on the propaganda by anti-feminists that feminists behave a certain way.

There are immediate penalties to being a feminist.
Material advantages are gained only over the medium to long term; and they pertain to all women whether they fought for them (and took the hit at the time) or not.

(However I think there are massive immediate psychological advantages to being a feminist, particularly a radical feminist - without feminism I would be mentally ill, and health is more important. This is not the case for everyone)

dont like to have a label which means I have to act a certain way

any feminists I have met are man haters

Trinity, I'm interested in what you say about the label. In what ways do you feel your behaviour would need to change if you were labelled as a feminist?

I guess what I mean is that if I were to say to someone 'I'm a feminist' they would immeadiately assume things about me

whereas if they see how I act and learn about me then they can see my morals, values what I believe in etc.

and I seriously have not in real life met a woman who proclaims to be a feminist that hasn't absolutely hated men

Trinity - you know feminists disagree with one another on an awful lot of issues, so surely it's impossible that there is a single way to behave attached to the f-word?

All it means is that you think women and men should be equal and you behave in a way that doesn't support male supremacy.

Out of interest, what have your RL feminists done/said to show that they hate men? Do men-hating feminists actually profess to hate men?

well I would say its impossible for there to be a sungle way to behace but lots of other dont

be it from ignorance or beng taught there is only one way

and yes man hating feminists just use the word feminist as a word to describe man hating

'oh yes I'm a feminist, fucking men, can't stop me doing what I want'

'all men are bastards, I'm a feminist cause I know what they are like'

seriously I do wonder how I've met such thick people

on another note, I dont really know what I should be doing to not support malke supremecy

I just try to be a nice person,look after those I love and have empathy for all.
Also try to believe in myself and not be a sheep

I thought things wee ok...thought they were equal...till' I had kids. Then I became worriedd about certain things...the media etc and began to learn by lurking here. Then I realised I was a feminist....and I was able to explain things to DH...some of his statements about his own Mother for instance were misogyinistic and I explained why...and he has also had an awakening.

We have 2 DDs. It's something that matters.

I don't class myself as a feminist as I don't really fit in - I like being looked after by my DH, I like being "Mrs" I don't particularly want a big career etc. I do want equality for women, but more than once I have been sneered at in RL and on MN for my choices. I'm happy with my choices and have no intention of apologising for them or justifying them, so I don't feel I fit in with a feminist group.

On a thread in this section about a month ago I did ask for information to help me understand feminism a bit better and I basically told to get lost. So in my view I tried, and was rudely responded to and that's not a group I want to be associated with. I will try to find that thread.

I've never met a feminist (i.e. one who pays more than lip service to the word) who hates men. I have met loads of women who say "all men are like that" or "what do you expect? they're men" or "men don't like x, y z". They are the men-haters. A little scratching below the surface separates those who have actually put a moments thought into feminist ideas.

I'm sorry

I was thinking as I wrote that that maybe I was wrong about not meeting any that aren't mad

you are right, butterfly, you're not mad, you're fab