Sunday Times: "Extreme feminists" have used moderate feminism as a Trojan horse

[Unwind]

www.dylan.org.uk/fruitbat_freedom.html

supposedly published in today's Sunday Times

Evans gives his version of an internal, confidential, HR matter and then witters on about some straw man extreme feminism

he must have good connections to get that lot of tripe published

here is a less partisan summary of the fruit bat story:
www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/gene-kerrigan/gene-kerrigan-old-prejudices-rear-head-in-batsex-row-2191181.html

This was Heroine's first and only post on Mumsnet. I imagine she is his friend or relation. Probably his mum.

I love the way his her first line was "you silly people".

I bet he she had to re-write that from "you silly women".

oh dear - I think that you'll find that he didn't read an article about bat fellatio to a 13 year old, nor did he have his hand down his trousers or any other silly exaggeration you want to add to make it sound more 'creepy' he mentioned an article about bat fellatio to another adult academic who squealed and freaked out. There is a thing going around that I hate, that men aren't allowed to mention sex or even express sexual desire because male sexuality is supposed to be scary and weird, which I think is a very damaging message being given out to boys everywhere by an increasingly female media and I just don't see that as going about things in the right way. If we bring up boys who hate themselves from puberty onwards rather than seeing their desires as being perfectly nice natural and normal then we are building self-hating women hating monsters, and I don't really want to be part of that. Boys can and are lovely, but they are never ever told that these days and they are condemned for everything - I thing Dylan is right - if you think a women aiming to destroy a man's career at the first available opportunity is acceptable, then perhaps its no wonder yu see this as a joke. Personally I don't want to see men being frightened to be men in case a woman gets them fired

"he mentioned an article about bat fellatio to another adult academic who squealed and freaked out"

No, he harrassed the woman on a constant basis - the hearing confirmed this, it UPHELD her complaint - and the bat thing was part of the harrassment.

Why are you ignoring this, Heroine?

Not really my first post - I forgot my last login and password - I work in a uni and have just been in another case where a coleague has been disciplined for supposedly showing pornography to another member of staff, when in fact a screensaver inadvertently picked up an image of an artistic nude from his my pictures folder - in this case I also know the person who saw the image and she was encouraged to make it into a complaint about pornography because the person who had the image was a man - then it got expanded - someone saw him watching a video with children in it. I am disgusted by this as I know him (or did when he was at work) and he's a nice guy and his only crime is liking art and its been terrible for him. I have worked for youth groups and seen 'well-meaning' youth workers victimise boys and treat all of their flirting as 'evidence' or near psychopathy and its really terrifying for them

rofl @ Heroine thinking Elephants said he had shown the paper to a 13 year old.
She really needs to learn to read more carefully if she is going to be capable of following the discussions on a site like Mumsnet.

It's quite basic grammar isn't it, the difference between a question and a statement? What do they teach them in school these days?

Actually she made several claims that were unfounded. Please don't join the 'he must be harassing if he is accused of harassing'

"I think is a very damaging message being given out to boys everywhere by an increasingly female media..."

I am actually far more worried aoubt the damaging message being given out to girls everywhere, that they are merely fuck-toys. Magazines like Nuts, Loaded, the DAily Sport, etc, are displayed alongside mainstream magazines with women on the covers being shown as nothing more than fuck-toys.

"If we bring up boys who hate themselves from puberty onwards rather than seeing their desires as being perfectly nice natural and normal then we are building self-hating women hating monsters"

I think we are bringing up girls who hate themselvs and boys who hate them, because the porn culture is all about sex being something men do to women, not something men and women do to and for each other. It is not boys who are being told that their desires are not natural and normal, it's girls, who on the one hand are told that they should be permanently "up for it" and on the other, if they are, they're sluts who deserve "everything they get" if they are raped.

Don't come on the feminist topic and lecture us on sexual politics, you nob-end.

Please learn the difference between being accused of something and having a complaint against you upheld, Heroine.

ooh weird a bitch about understanding! - i am just saying that adding exaggerations to try to illustrate why the incident without the exaggerations is bad is silly - its like saying 'you should hand someone for shoplifting sweets I mean what if instead of sweets it was a shotgun and instead of eating it, she blasted the shopkeeper - you wouldn't think letting her off was ok then would you .. would you' its just dumb.

Damn, couldn't stop myself, that post will probably be deleted because of the personal insult at the end, so will re-post without the insult ():

"I think is a very damaging message being given out to boys everywhere by an increasingly female media..."

I am actually far more worried aoubt the damaging message being given out to girls everywhere, that they are merely fuck-toys. Magazines like Nuts, Loaded, the DAily Sport, etc, are displayed alongside mainstream magazines with women on the covers being shown as nothing more than fuck-toys.

"If we bring up boys who hate themselves from puberty onwards rather than seeing their desires as being perfectly nice natural and normal then we are building self-hating women hating monsters"

I think we are bringing up girls who hate themselvs and boys who hate them, because the porn culture is all about sex being something men do to women, not something men and women do to and for each other. It is not boys who are being told that their desires are not natural and normal, it's girls, who on the one hand are told that they should be permanently "up for it" and on the other, if they are, they're sluts who deserve "everything they get" if they are raped.

Wrong Hermione.
And I suspect you know it. The harassment was ongoing, the Fruit bat was just one incident. Nothing on it's own, of course, but it wasn't an isolated incident. the media likes to jump on the silliest aspect and extrapolate from that. As do you, it seems.

oh you missed off a bit HB:

'Don't come on the feminist topic and lecture us on sexual politics, it's unwise.'

so... you are against women feeling like they are sexually dirty and can see why that is a bad value system to convey, but can't see why its a bad value system to convey to boys?

not all the complaints of harassment were upheld - only the bat paper one there were more accusations made than upheld which suggests a scatter-gun approach on behalf of the accuser. are you lot always this prickly?

btw i agree with loaded and nuts and daily sport being bad, but I don't agree with internet porn being bad. I think that not all the value errors you allege are there with internet porn - that said I sometimes enjoy being a fuck toy

ooh I love it, she says random rude and illogical stuff and if we argue or are rude back we're 'prickly'!

I have my bingo card out in readiness.

We're always this prickly when someone comes on and lectures us about sexual politics and IGNORES the facts of the case - which is that overall, her complaint of sexual harrassment was upheld and the bat paper should be seen in that context.

Have you ever been harrassed or bullied at work Heroine? Because I have, and I can tell you, that sometimes, when you hve been through weeks or months of stress from harrassment, the straw that can break the camel's back, can be something quite tiny and seemingly insignificant - something that in normal times, when you are feeling strong and happy and fine with the world, you would brush off or not even notice.

You have once again ignored the ongoing harrassment which this woman was suffering, preferring to concentrate on the straw.

that's what I mean you aren't listening to what I say and waiting for things to ridicule - its a bit cruel .. oh and 'you are just like hitler'

why do people feel the need to wander into random threads and start telling you about their sexual proclivities?
it's like sitting harmlessly in your office and having some weird bloke wander in with a paper about bat fellatio

"so... you are against women feeling like they are sexually dirty and can see why that is a bad value system to convey, but can't see why its a bad value system to convey to boys? "

Why would you think I can't see that it's a bad value system to convey to boys?

Heroine, you're the one who's not listening tbh.

why would you feel the need to ask me why I would think that you can't see that its a bad value system for boys?

Hitler and enjoying feeling like a fuck toy?

What is this guy on?

Heroine, people are reading your posts carefully and responding precisely to them. You, on the other hand, are repeatedly ignoring or ridiculing our questions.

its a shame that there is not a 'slaps head in disbelief' smiley