Feminism chat thread

[ElephantsAndMiasmas]

Hello

Been saying for ages that it'd be nice to have an area for just saying hi, letting off some steam and sharing the little things that don't warrant a whole thread.

So, I'll start...

My brother made me :o:o:o last night when we were talking about some crap sexist song. And he said (in all honesty) - well this is just one of the millions of ways the patriarchy keeps itself going.

Also got the updated email from the Feminism in London conference this morning - can't wait.

Anyone else?

Damn..I forgot about 'talk like a pirate day'!!!

Was going to say what seth said - that I think the baroness whotsit report said that many reapes were being recorded as "no crime" etc and so maybe that has changed.

The video won't work for me... Shame i was looking forward to some instruction!

Also, I have never seen any of the johnny depp pirate films, will this put me at a disadvantage when getting a costume together? My pirate ideas are based on a bloke with bloomers and a parrot on his shoulder. Hold on, I did read somewhere that Johnny Depp based his look on that bloke from the rolling stones, and I know what he looks like....

Oh it's not for any reason, and I'm v keen on Johnny Depp I just haven't got around to it!

Pirates of the Caribbean films are great, I have probably seen the first one at least 20 times (went through a phase of watching them every sunday afternoon a couple of years ago) but I went right off Johnny Depp when I heard that he'd come out in favour of the child rapist Roman Polanski.

REVIVING THIS THREAD!

Was watching a programme called Justice last night on BBC4 (warning - was v dry). There was an interview with an expert on Aristotle, who was commenting that an involvement in public life - politics, positions of responsibility, social life of the town, etc - was looked on for a prerequisite of the Athenian well-lived life. In fact, the word "idiot" comes from a word meaning one who remains in the private, domestic sphere, because that was only half a life.

But then, of course, mentioned that women (and slaves) weren't allowed to participate in public life .

Made me think, I can tell you :)

(just wanted to revive the thread as we need a place to chat about non-whole-threadworthy things)

Oh it was an excellent programme wasn't it? Proper BBC "educate, inform, entertain" business :)

Well done for reviving this thread btw. I keep wanting to make remarks that don't warrant a thread of their own: forgot that we had this one going for a while for just such a purpose

ah, feminist chat, excellent.

didn't see that but did see Panorama about stalking. You know, police believe stalker, he breaks into woman's house and she defends herself with a knife and she's the one in trouble and loses her child.

we have such a long, long way to go.

and those arseholes on the DM comments are really getting to me.

Hello. I was never on this thread originally, but I'm going to be now!

I was listening to women's hour from Friday on my MP3 player last night, and there was a woman on who had made a programme about sex workers in India who are doing it for religious reaons . Apparently it was on BBC4 but I can't find it on iplayer. I thought they said it was on on Friday - did anyone see it?

Can you link to interesting progs if they're on a watch again site? I don't always get to watch tv when I want to.

I saw a bit of that programme Flamingo - it was on BBC4 last night: here

this is the justice programme

Ah - that's why I couldn't find it on iplayer last night! Was it good?

It was on last night, think actually it might be the woman's hour from yesterday you were listening to?

I saw it. Here's the link to watch again.

whoops beaten to it. I'm so pleased that I bumped this, was a bit worried no-one else would turn up.

I had an interesting quote from (wait for it) Terry Pratchett that I wanted to talk about a few weeks ago, but forgot about this thread. Was thinking of starting an "interesting feminism-related things in unexpected places" thread :o

There were a few things I found irritating about it, but yes it was good. The best thing about it was that the programme really consisted of listening to the women involved: the older women who have forced their daughters into this life, the middle-aged women who have either changed their lives or carried on with it, the young girls just starting out, and the social workers and charity workers involved in this issue.

There was only one man interviewed, which was a bit odd. Partly because he was a professor (I think) and came across as very smug and abstract about the whole thing. And partly because they didn't speak to any of the men who pay for sex with these girls and women.

I don't know why they made that choice (or even whether they made it, rather than being unable to find men to speak to) but it did create an atmosphere of a very specific female-run microcosm.

It was good in a way, but there was a lot of mention of the threats that keep a lot of women living like this, while never really focussing on this issue IYSWIM. Lots about the economic imperatives, but not much about the physical intimidation aspect.

Sorry I am rambling :)

No worries about rambling! All good!

So...a question...how do you cope when, as someone who stands up and speaks about things you feel strongly about, you lose friends? Of course, they're probably not people you'd really want as friends, but it obviously can make life difficult and upsetting, can't it?

Last year I spoke out when the husband of the woman who ran a local home ed social meet-up announced on FB that he thought women who bfed their toddlers were disgusting and should stop doing it in public. This was when a lot of his FB friends were women who attend the group and have often bfed their babies and toddlers there. I and another woman spoke up and told him, politely, he was wrong. He got uppity, we got uppity in return. This was all online. Anyway, they ended up shutting the group and, unbeknownst to me and this other woman, deleted us both from their group email list.

Today they've started the group again...and I'm obvioulsy not going. It's not a feminist issue, this time (well, it is, actually, I guess), but I feel really gutted that my chidlren and I are sitting at home while all our friends meet up together...even though all our friends agreed that he was being a twat, there were only two of us who actually spoke out, so only two of us who have been 'excommunicated'. It's all a bit gutting really!

So - how do you all manage when you get a) chucked by people you speak out against and b) kind of distanced from by other friends who agree with you, but are too wimpy to speak out with you?

reading backlash is really making me think I can tell you.
I was listening to some classics on the radio the other day, love songs from the eighties and nineties and they were all either women singing that they loved a man, and would do anything for him, and accept any conditions OR men who wanted to make it clear to a woman that they're not interested in her

can't remember the titles now, but they were really popular mainstream songs

talk about projection. I think these songs really contributed to a lot of women falling for the line that women need men more than men need women. The opposite is true, judging by the fact that married men are happiest, followed by single women

that's terrible FlamingoBingo
but it always happens to feminists. It's systematic. Look what they did to poor old Dworkin.

I'll quote you a line from Heartbreak:
"You tell the truth and they can shit all over it but it stays alive somewhere in someone's heart"

or words to that effect, she's a lot more eloquent than me

I'll order Backlash, I think, sakura.

I have a pile of feminist literature to read at the moment: Reclaiming the F-word; Living dolls; and The Equality Illusion.

That's horrible, Flamingo.

I've never had a circumstance quite like that, if people have dumped me as a friend for my views, they've just kind of faded out and I haven't noticed. It has been difficult at times with work though.

The first thing I would say is, if possible, try to make a comment that is jokey while pointing out exactly what you are objecting to. The idea is to make the other person look silly. Then, calculate how many bridges to burn (the "getting uppity" bit).

But when it comes down to it, I put my faith in the idea that speaking up for what I believe in will win me friends, and better friends, than the ones I lose. Whether that's true or not I don't know! :)

And I agree people will have listened/read the discussion and absorbed some of it. I just get bloody fed up with all the 'yes, I agree, Flamingo. You're right - it's awful what he said' but no actually saying it to him like I and this other woman did, and now actually going and being all chummy, chummy with them again. Bloody irritating!